Is All Sin The Same In God’s Eyes?


From a comment on God Cannot Die

BFHU:“For instance, it is wrong to slap my brother but it is exponentially more wrong to slap my father. The action is the same in both cases but the sin’s gravity increases greatly when it is against my father versus against my brother.”

Q.Are you kidding me? That is wrong on so many levels. You are essentially saying that the slap to the sibling is not right but its not that bad compared to the slap of the parent? Are you for real?

A. I am amazed that you think both actions are equal.

Q. Surely, a Christian such as you claim, would know that such actions are wrong in both accounts.

A. I do and I said both actions were wrong.

Q.Do you think that God operates what way?

A. Yes. I know He does

Q. There is no such thing as a big sin and a small sin in the eyes of God.

A. Where does it say that in Scripture? That is just not true. Even when I was a Protestant I heard this idea that all sin is equal in God’s eyes and I thought it was ridiculous from what I knew about God and scripture. I would rather be gossiped about than murdered. There IS a big difference between sins. It just seemed pretty disrespectful towards God to think He saw no difference in the gravity of various sins.

Q. One small sin is enough to keep you out of His kingdom—period.

A. Where does it say that in Scripture? I think God is a little more gracious and discerning than that. I think you are giving me Protestant Tradition not scripture. There is this passage:

James 2:For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.”If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.

So, there is a sense in which all sin is equal.(breaking all of it) That is, that any sin, large or small ,separates us from God so that we all need a Savior. Sort of like a cut in our skin, bleeds. Both large cuts and small cuts bleed. So, in that sense, they are equal in the fact that they bleed. But, in addition to this similarity, there are cuts that are life threatening and much more deadly than others. Yet they are all equal in the sense that they all bleed. But they are unequal in the threat they pose to life.

Yes, sin, big or small, separates us from God. We need to be saved by Christ. But once we are saved we still sin. Some sin is deadly to the life of our soul and our relationship to God. Even Scripture speaks of the difference in gravity of sin. Please see these:

God calls some sin an abomination–>Here He doesn’t call every sin an abomination.

God especially hates 6 or 7 things–> Here

So it would seem that God has some pretty strong feelings about certain sins. He also especially despises people who take advantage of widows and orphans. And St. Paul gives us lists of especially serious sins that will prevent the attainment of Heaven.

Q. In His eyes they are all the same size. The guy who steals post-it-notes from work will go to the same fiery pit as the guy who molested a 10 year old girl.

A. Perhaps you could give us some scripture to back up these assertions.
Because, St. John clearly talks about two different categories of sin

1 John 5:16-17

If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. 17All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

The Catholic Church names these two categories of sin Mortal (sin that leads to death) and Venial (sin that does not lead to death)

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53 Responses

  1. Here is your proof that ALL who sin no matter big or small, will be dammned to hell unless he repents his sin and asks Jesus into his heart. The following verse lists sins that are both major and minor in our eyes, but in God’s eyes, it is all the same. A dish is considered dirty whether it has a dot of food or an entire plate of food on it.”He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” Revelation 21:7-8

  2. Those are all pretty major sins it seems to me. My point is made by your quotation. The list of sins deserving the second death did not include: Critical thoughts about others, gossip, impatience, failure to help the guy with the flat tire, gluttony, failure to be attentive to your spouse, etc.

  3. There are many that would not consider liars to be as offensive as murderers. In fact, most would agree that a liar should not get as sever a punishment as a murderer should. And what about the cowardly. They should be punished the same as a murderer? But, God says they all will. It is in that verse – the COWARDLY, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those practicing magic arts, the idolaters, and ALL LIARS. In that same verse, there is your proff that the same punishment (death in the lake of fire, or eternal damnation in hell) applies to all levels of sin

  4. The verse reads “But the fearful…and all liars, shall have their pari in a lake which burneth withfire and brimstone: which is the second death.” This says their part clearly placeing different values in different sins it says their part not equal parts.

  5. i totally agree that not all sin is the same in God’s eyes but it does effect us in some way and we will always be punished for our sin

  6. John 19-8-11
    He WHO BETRAYED ME TO THEE HAS THE GREATER SIN.” jESUS tells Palateall sin is not egual
    and we shall pay to the last penney , last mite , and they shall have a hever sentence.
    It’s all in the good book

  7. A heavier sentence? The concept about varying “degrees” of sin that is a little off, is that it suggests that by lying rather than killing a man, I have offended God less, and thus God will punish me less. However, anything that I do is disobeying God, and I’ve always gotten the strange feeling that their is only one punishment for that – eternity in hell. “For the wages of sin is death…” Rom 6:23.

    “Finish the verse!” You may say, “it talks about salvation!” True, the verse then says “but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” That proves my point.

    By saying I have offended God less, you suggest that I might receive a lighter punishment, well, it clearly says that no matter what, the punishment is death. By suggesting that there is less of a punishment, you imply that I can atone for my sin, because the gift of God is eternal life, right? But that’s through Christ Jesus. “For it is y grace you have been saved, through faith – and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast.” Ephesians 2:9.

    There’s no way you can atone for your sin, and no matter what you do, be a lie or murder or adultery, the punishment is death.

  8. True we are saved by God’s grace. What you have to understand though is that Paul constantly made a distinction between “works of the Mosaic Law” through which no man was justified(example: having a yearly sacrifice implies you are guilty of sin) and “works of faith” which is, essentially, loving your neighbor.

    When we are judged upon death it is going to be based upon our actions.

    Jesus received merits for carrying his Cross, and earned the right to sit at the right hand of the Father. So when we pick up our own crosses, we also gain glorification but it is not our merit that is rewarded but rather Christ’s merit that we have allowed to work through us in our own lives.

    • Greetings in Christ.

      This discussion is very interesting, because I think it’s lacking a proper understanding of sin and the necessity of Christ’s death on the cross. Romans 3:23 “all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God” and Romans 6:23 “for the wages of sin is death”. In order to understand sin we need to understand how God sees it.

      God hates sin, no matter how small, he hates it. He hates it so much that under the Mosaic law it is required for blood to be spilled for atonement. But at the same time, God is loving, and merciful, and although we are like an adulterous wife (Read Hosea) God is a good husband who refuses to break his wedding vow.

      So, God sent His Son: “For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him will not die, but have eternal life” (John 3:16). This is the gospel, and it requires a proper understanding of God, sin, and the weight of sin. Without the weight of all sin – and the Bible describes that some are worse than others – then Christ’s death is meaningless. Christ died for all, not just the murderers, the rapists, the thieves, etc. Christ died for moralists who consider themselves good people only in contrast to the murderers and rapists, because even their thoughts are full of sin, in the way they judge others, hate others, and treat others – no man or woman is free from sin!

      When asking are some sins worse than others (which is a good question with a biblical answer) we must start off with the knowledge of how bad sin is to begin with. Sin sucks, it’s the reason we’re separate from God! But thanks to God that He gave us his Son to forgive us for our sins.

      The catholic church breaks down sin into venial and mortal. Biblically, there are some sins worse than others. In the definition of “venial” and “mortal” the church teaches something contrary to the bible. Venial sins can be forgiven on one’s own, when mortal sins require a mediator – a priest. This is against the gospel – “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:8). God gave His Son for all sins, Jesus forgives us for all sins, He separates them as far as east is from west (Psalm 103), and while we are not perfect yet, we will be when die. Until then, we are given a new heart to obey and honor God (Deuteronomy 30:6), and when we die God will pardon us from condemnation by the blood of Christ, and not our deeds. The man who died next to Jesus on the cross was a thief. He admitted his sins to Jesus, and Jesus promised him eternal life. When the that man died he had nothing to present to God the Father but the sacrifice of Jesus Christ: “And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.” (Hebrews 10:10).

      I hope this is some food for thought. Without a proper understanding of the gospel, it’s hard to understand just how great Jesus is!

      With grace, peace, and love in Jesus,
      Nathan

      • PREACH!

      • I am here because I was struggling with defining sin vs abomination and people (including Christians) judging and condemning others. Today is Christmas Eve and Though I believe that children of God have a duty to share the word of God they must do so responsibly (this is all in response to the whole Phil Robertson issue) I agree that we’ve all sinned and all face the same punishment. If Christ Jesus died to take away all of our sins then how can we condemn someone when God sees them worthy of forgiveness and salvation. We should help people get closer to God by following in the footsteps of Christ not distancing them with our imperfect version of scripture. If all of heaven rejoices when one soul is saved I wonder what the response is when we cause a fellow sinner to go farther away from Gods saving grace. Thank you so much for your response.

        • Dear Karen,
          I am sure that if we cause others to move away from God b/c of our personal pride, sin, and lack of charity it saddens our loving Father. But if teaching the truth causes others to leave then their leaving also saddens our Father but that is their free will choice. Jesus, also caused people to leave:

          John 6:66 After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him.

          I had not actually read what Phil Robertson said in the article so I looked it up. Here are the controversial things he said:

          “It seems like, to me, a vagina—as a man—would be more desirable than a man’s anus. That’s just me. I’m just thinking: There’s more there! She’s got more to offer. I mean, come on, dudes! You know what I’m saying? But hey, sin: It’s not logical, my man. It’s just not logical.”…..

          “Start with homosexual behavior and just morph out from there. Bestiality, sleeping around with this woman and that woman and that woman and those men,” he says. Then he paraphrases Corinthians: “Don’t be deceived. Neither the adulterers, the idolaters, the male prostitutes, the homosexual offenders, the greedy, the drunkards, the slanderers, the swindlers—they won’t inherit the kingdom of God. Don’t deceive yourself. It’s not right.”…..

          Here is the Bible verse:

          I Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the fornicators.nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[effeminate nor sodomites] 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

          But he also said these which were not hysteria worthy:

          As far as Phil is concerned, he was literally born again. Old Phil—the guy with the booze and the pills—died a long time ago, and New Phil sees no need to apologize for him: “We never, ever judge someone on who’s going to heaven, hell. That’s the Almighty’s job. We just love ’em, give ’em the good news about Jesus—whether they’re homosexuals, drunks, terrorists. We let God sort ’em out later, you see what I’m saying?”

          “For the sake of the Gospel, it was worth it,” Phil tells me. “All you have to do is look at any society where there is no Jesus. I’ll give you four: Nazis, no Jesus. Look at their record. Uh, Shintos? They started this thing in Pearl Harbor. Any Jesus among them? None. Communists? None. Islamists? Zero. That’s eighty years of ideologies that have popped up where no Jesus was allowed among those four groups. Just look at the records as far as murder goes among those four groups.”

          Phil On Health Insurance
          “Temporary is all you’re going to get with any kind of health care, except the health care I’m telling you about. That’s eternal health care, and it’s free…. I’ve opted to go with eternal health care instead of blowing money on these insurance schemes.”

          “If you simply put your faith in Jesus coming down in flesh, through a human being, God becoming flesh living on the earth, dying on the cross for the sins of the world, being buried, and being raised from the dead—yours and mine and everybody else’s problems will be solved. And the next time we see you, we will say: ‘You are now a brother. Our brother.’ So then we look at you totally different then. See what I’m saying?”

          Read More http://www.gq.com/entertainment/television/201401/duck-dynasty-phil-robertson#ixzz2ogQjgFlW

          I read the whole GQ article and there was nothing uncharitable in what Phil Robertson said. He really simply quoted the Bible. In this case, if people walk away it is more in line with how Jesus spoke the Truth and people rejected it. Phil Robertson spoke the truth. He was not being mean spirited in any way as far as I can tell.

      • Beautiful!

  9. Also you should consider this about the atonement thing:

    If Jesus died/atoned for our sins, why do we still grow old and die, which is after all, the punishment for Original Sin?

    If he paid the penalty with his death, why are we still being penalized with mortality? Why do women have pain in child birth?

    The answer is this:

    Jesus’ death only did away with the ETERNAL consequences of sin(ex: not being allowed into heaven) not the temporary(ex: “Ok everyone I died on the cross so now there’s no reason why any of you should have to suffer a natural death!). Just think, death was a temporary punishment for ONE sin(the original sin), but what that tells us is that each and every individual sin has a TEMPORARY punishment attached to it!

  10. So when I pick up a little old lady from our church and her hair is flattened down in the back and she asks me”honey does my hair look just horrible?” and I reply, “you look beautiful”. This little white lie will be judged the same as rape, murder, stealing?
    That doesn’t seem right to me.

  11. An aspect of this argument I have not seen addressed to this point is that when Paul is describing people as liars, idolaters, or adulterers, he is speaking of people who have made a lifestyle of these sins. These were not people who had, after receiving Salvation, slipped up a few times, but people who were choosing to live in their sin and not seeking repentance for it. All sin is equal in deserving a punishment of death, yes. But once one has received their salvation and lives a repentant life constantly seeking closer union with God, “degrees” of sin no longer becomes an issue. If one is truly living with God in the center of their heart, things like idolatry, adultery, lying, etc., should also fall to the wayside. But because of their Salvation and God’s propitiation through Christ, forgiveness is given to the believer.

  12. In one sense you can say that we have all been saved by Jesus’ sacrifice, but our salvation is a work in progress throughout our entire lives—not a completed act as your post seems to suggest. If it were a completed act then there is no need to “work out your own salvation in fear and trembling”. What do we have to fear exactly?

    Why separation from God, or course.

    Sin, no matter what degree, will prevent us from entering into heaven.

  13. Hebrews 10:26-31

    For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

  14. Daniel,
    Please point out what in my post seems to suggest that our salvation is a completed act. I would like to correct it b/c I don’t believe that. Of course Jesus’ salvific act is complete.

  15. “But once one has received their salvation…”

    I live in the south and I often hear that exact phrase in reference to other things like “sinner’s prayer” and “get saved”. I hope you understand my confusion.

  16. Thanks Daniel. I said:

    “But once we are saved we still sin.”

    I don’t think I can reword this without it becoming cumbersome. As you said:

    In one sense you can say that we have all been saved by Jesus’ sacrifice,

    And i agree that “our salvation is a work in progress throughout our entire lives:

  17. So if sin is measured in degree does this mean that some souls are redeemable while others are not? is a homosexual going to hell in a hand basket while while a person who commits adultery has a chance of being saved? is this right? what is the difference between a ” regular sin” and an abomination? Please explain, any input pertaining to this question will be helpful!!!!

    • I completely see why that sounds strange. I have had that exact conversation with a couple of my Gay or “bi” family members.My take is that, it’s not our desires that count, rather it is how we respond to those desires. I have struggled many years with adultery and i dont see my sexual sin as any less of a sin. For us to be forgiven we must turn from that sin. A homosexual may always desire members of the same sex and CANNOT change that. I also CANNOT stop my attraction hundreds of women. I cannot say; “lord forgive me but I am going live my life a “Swinger and Proud!!” Lol.. no dice!! I have to get past my desire.
      Therefore, though a homosexual WILL strugle tremendously to turn from their desire also, that too must be done. One cannot say “lord forgive me but I am going to live my life Gay and Prod!!” – No dice again!! LOVE YOU ALL, NO DISRESPECT INTENDED, just my take on the situation;) God Bless

  18. Dear Van,
    An unrepentant adulterer will go to Hell as fast as an unrepentant sexually active homosexual.

    Being homosexual, or having same sex attraction is NOT A SIN. A man being sexually attracted to women is not a sin. But having sex with a woman outside of marriage is a sin.

    Homosexual sex, adultery, premarital sex, masturbation, contracepted sex are ALL serious sin. Yet all of these sins can be forgiven if they are repented of in confession and the person honestly intends to stop.

    The only sin that cannot be forgiven is rejection of Christ even up to death. A person can be saved even at the last minute, however.

    All sin offends our Good and Holy God. But some sin is much more serious and cuts us off from Him and salvation unless we go to confession. Getting irritated with the guy who cuts you off in traffic, or impatient with a spouse are examples of lesser or venial sin for which we still need to repent of and try to avoid. “But the righteous man falls seven times a day”

    • Leviticus 18: 22 clearly states that a man lying with another man is a detestable sin.. What we now a day call “gay” or homosexual.

      • True, but note that it is the “lying with another man” that is detestable. It is homosexual sexual acts that are detestable. Just like adultery, pedophilia, contraception,masturbation, and fornication are detestable.

        Being sexually attracted to another is NOT a sin. Being attracted to men instead of women is NOT a sin. Acting on the attraction IS the sin. Resisting sin is admirable.

        A person with same sex attraction must resist sexual sin exactly like any other person must resist the sexual sin: the attraction of another outside of marriage, using contraception, or indulging in masturbation. Resisting the temptation to sin is always meritorious. The temptation itself is NOT a sin.

  19. If all sins are equal then there won’t be an unforgivable sin, which is “Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit”. If Jesus gave his life to forgive sins yet tells you that one sin is unforgivable, allows you to understand that sins are viewed differently. Don’t get me wrong a sin is a sin in the eyes of the Lord, meaning you are going against God’s will and you should not choose which one to break or follow. God does not see a blasphemer again the Holy Spirit, a murderer, a thief, a liar as the same or they would all have the same outcome based on blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (an unforgivable sin).

  20. All sin is enough to keep us from heaven because God is Holy and will not tolerate sin, HOWEVER- all is sin is NOT EQUAL. Each sin will be judged accordingly. Second Samuel 3:39 urges, “May the LORD repay the evildoer according to his evil deeds!” First Samuel 2:3 affirms, “Do not keep talking so proudly or let your mouth speak such arrogance, for the LORD is a God who knows, and by him deeds are weighed;” And more support: Revelation 20:13 teaches, “The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.” Yes sin is sin and one sin is enough to keep us out of heaven unless we receive Christ in our hearts and ask for frogiveness. However, to those who choose to reject salvation and God’s mercy, they will be judged in hell accordingly. Hitler cannot be equated to someone who lived a “good” life by society’s standards but yet chose to reject God’s mercy, yes, both will go to hell but will be punished accordingly. To say that they will be punished equally is unjust! And our God is JUST! Hell itself was created out of the holiness and justice of God, so what makes us think that people will not be judged and punished accordingly in hell? Just as there are rewards in heaven, there are degrees of punishment in hell according to gravity of sin. Yes, sin is sin and enough to keep us from heaven, but this does not mean that all sin is equal! There is a reason God addresses certain sins more than others, like the sin of pride, or the unforgiveable sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. This indicates that though all sin is sin and aches the heart of God, there are sins that are more detestable in the eyes of God. Read the scripture with meditation and prayer and ask Him to reveal His wisdom to you. If you seek the truth you will find it when you seek it with all your heart.

  21. 2 SAMUEL CHAPTER 7 VERSE14 SEE WHAT GOD DOES TO HIS SON FOR HIS SINS NOT YOURS YOUR TIME HAS NOT COME.

  22. I am a Protestant and agree that all sins are not equal. Since there is the unforgivable sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit, and Paul also states that the worst sin is a sexual sin.
    I also believe that Catholics, Protestants, and the rest of us who truly believe in Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior are all brothers and sisters, so all of the disrespectful pop shots at Protestants are completely out of line. God bless you.

  23. A specific prayer is intercession for a brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death.. Here john does not encourage prayer for the restoration of those who are sinning a sin leading to death. These are the ones who, like false teachers, have manifested the spirit of the Antichrist in denying the Father and the Son.

  24. For only God knows the heart of a man regardless of his sin and God died for each and every person. If a man steals something from another but his pride prevents him from having remorse because he feels the world owes him for what he took but another takes a life out of anger but feels remorse afterwords for what did and repents then does the sin really matter. For David was a man after Gods own heart in spite of the thousands he killed and the other sins he committed because he was remorseful to God and gave God the glory for his loving kindness.

  25. Hansel Ramos nailed it. All sin keeps us seperated from a Holy God without grace through faith in Christ. Yet to say all sin is exactly the same in the eyes of God would make God the most unjust being in the universe. Besides, nothing could be further from the message of Scripture. There is just no way the God of the Bible is blind to the difference between a bad thought an murder. Come on people. A) Get some common sense. B) Read the Bible. Unfortunatly this IS being taught in many protestant churches, though not mine. It is milk toast theology resulting in the watering down of sin as a whole. Nobody sits around and thinks God is about to send fire and brimstone because they had a bad thought. Instead we assume he won’t send fire and brimstone at all, because “hey, what the heck he sees it all the same.” We wind up making the worst kinds of sins to be “not really that bad,” because to God, it isn’t any worse than being jealous for a moment. Come on. It is one thing to talk about Heaven and Hell. Apart from Christ ANY sin will send you to Hell. But that does not mean God is somehow blind and dumb to the difference between mass murder and a lustful thought. I would quote Scripture, but some of the brothers already nailed it. Why is this important? It is important because in the end what happens with this line of thinking is that everyone thinks everyone is pretty much okay… and that is exactly what the Devil wants people to think.

  26. Here is what Jesus says about sin. he sums the law up into two laws. Love the Lord your god with all of your heart, soul and strength and love your neighbour as yourself. All sin was grouped into those two categories. If you are a murder – you do not love man therefore you sin. You steal a cookie from the cookie jar you do not love man because you disrespect your parents wishes. Plus you stole… the point is all sin misses god’s mark that he set for us. Yes some sins are further away from that mark – one sin might miss the dart board all together while one might just barely miss the bullseye… but the reality is the bullseye is what god demands… here is the other thing though… we are totally depraved which means we are incapable of hitting that bullseye because of our sin nature – therefore when we give our life to Christ He hits the bullseye for us – His righteousness becomes our righteousness – while some sins are morally more evil or wrong – all sins have the same penalty – death. But Jesus cam so that we might have life – His righteousness becomes ours even though we will never be truly righteous in and of our selves until the second coming. Is all sin equal? Morally and ethically no they are not. However, all sin is equal in the sense of it is all a result of our sin nature – individual sins do not lead one to Hell ever – it is a lifestyle of sin that caters to the sin nature that leads us to damnation – when we give our lives to God we still sin but His grace is enough. You either live according to the sin nature or to the law of the Spirit… there is no in between… that is my two cents

    • That was an awesome way to put this in to perspective!
      The one reference of God’s opinion of this is when Jesus explains the unforgivable sin of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. This passage insists that not all sins are the same, but do vary in degree.
      Matthew 12:31
      “And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.”
      Straight out of the Bible from the mouth of Jesus Himself. Can’t argue it.

  27. Thanks for your input. As I said in my post.

    James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

    So, there is a sense in which all sin is equal.(breaking all of it) That is, that any sin, large or small, separates us from God so that we all need a Savior. Sort of like a cut in our skin, bleeds. Both large cuts and small cuts bleed. So, in that sense, they are equal in the fact that they bleed. But, in addition to this similarity, there are cuts that are life threatening and much more deadly than others. Yet they are all equal in the sense that they all bleed. But they are unequal in the threat they pose to life.

    So, it is with sin. All sin, any kind of sin, separates us from God and causes us to be in need of a savior. Even our fallen nature causes us to need a Savior. This is all true. In this way all sin can equally separate us from God. BUT, once we are saved this equality is no longer in force. All sin is no longer equal. All sin will not separate us from God. Any sin, no matter how small will NOT cause us to fall from grace and lose our salvation. Only deadly sin will do that as St. John mentions in his first epistle.

    Yes, sin, big or small, separates us from God. We need to be saved by Christ. But once we are saved we still sin. Some sin is deadly to the life of our soul and our relationship to God. Even Scripture speaks of the difference in gravity of sin.

  28. I was listening to one of Kenneth Copeland’s CDs and one thing he said really struck me:

    THERE IS ONLY ONE SIN THAT KEEPS US FROM HEAVEN – UNBELIEF IN GOD/JESUS CHRIST

    What he revealed was if we don’t believe in Jesus Christ as our Savior, then all other sins are redundant. We were born in sin and hell-bound to begin with.

    On the other hand, if we believe in Him, we are forgiven, and all other sins are cancelled and also redundant (eternal consequence -wise, they can only then be parasitic/anemic/power-loser).

    SIN/BC (Any size kills all)——-CHRIST——–SIN/AC (Sickening but not lethal, bar apostasy).

    The comparison is NOT within either side.
    The comparison is ACROSS both sides.

    I got to this webpage while following up on the topic above to see if others see it the same way. It (KCM) makes sense to me.

    But it begs the question:
    If unbelievers do not entrust their life to Christ, especially if they don’t want Him, or God in their lives, then what’s the point of ‘fighting’ as Christians against immorality in general (e.g.- 10 commandments or family values in legislation) if we know that that’s not going to cut it (save them)?

    This is not a rhetorical question as I really want to know your thoughts.

    Perhaps a pertinent example would help:
    Here in Australia we are trying to stop changes to the Marriage Act due to pressures from gays and feminist groups. How does making such people follow good morals/legislation (man & woman marriage) benefit them? They are still under original sin and unbelieving.

    At the same time we cannot wait to put the horse before the cart (salvation first before right acts) before we can do something….I have observed how impossible it is for people to understand what we as Christians see. They really CANNOT perceive the things of the Spirit for they are spiritually discerned. They GENUINELY believe that what we see as wrong is o.k. I’ve been there myself – after a period of rationalizing it away, I become convinced.

    To add a spanner in the works, the Bible says, No one comes to Me (JC) unless the Father draw him. Does that indicate that we choose our pro-values efforts wisely with discernment and not shove it down any Tom, Dick & Harry’s throats? Or is it an act of faith perchance anyone might be a borderline convert?

    Don’t mean to highjack your thread, my friend ; ) with the digression – it may be relevant still.

  29. Where does Kenneth Copeland get this?

    THERE IS ONLY ONE SIN THAT KEEPS US FROM HEAVEN – UNBELIEF IN GOD/JESUS CHRIST

    It is not in scripture. That might be the UNFORGIVEABLE SIN. But did he mention a verse?

    • It is by deduction. Of course there is no express verse that says that and I cannot find the spot in the hours-long “You Are The Prophet of Your Own Life” sermon series.

      Before you dismiss that because of the ‘lack’ of express Scripture backing, let me just point out that the majority of what we believe as Christians is by deduction based on fundamental principles. For instance we know God is not a man that He should lie. So it implies a choice on His part. As TD Jakes ‘revealed’, God CANNOT lie – it is IMPOSSIBLE for Him to lie. Not Scriptural? If I held up a white sheet of paper and say to you that it is blue, would I be telling the truth or would I be lying? Colorblind perhaps (white vs blue!!)? If God held up the same white sheet of paper, and said the SAME thing as I did (this is a blue sheet of paper), would He be lying or telling the truth? Jakes deduction was that God would be telling the truth, unlike me, because the moment He says this is a blue sheet of paper, it turns blue!! Isn’t He the Creator who spoke stars into existence? or the light that enables us to see the colors? That’s deduction.

      But as KC pointed out, you can sin all you want and it wouldn’t make a difference to your eternal destiny as that’s where you’re headed by default. Only your belief in Jesus Christ would make the difference. Therefore, the only sin that would keep us ignorantly hell-bound is unbelief in JC.

      Put another way; if I do not commit the sin of murder, adultery, theft, sorcery, I would still go to hell without JC. However, if I do not ‘omit’ the sin of unbelief in Christ, then everything changes, I am heaven-bound.

      It also took me a while to marinate, like I said, it struck me.

    • I disagree with Mr. Copeland. The only Sin that can keep you out of Heaven is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
      Salvation is not Buying a Ticket to Heaven.

      It’s about being delivered into Union into the Son which is into the Father this is work of the Holy Spirit this is a process called Sanctification.

      Which most backyard preachers such as Copeland and other Charismatic preacher they forget or don’t know that this takes a life time. And if you be catholic it extends to Pergotory.

      Mr. Copeland’s view is based on Oneness teaching not the Trinity.

      • Ok. What is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit? It is the same thing, isn’t it? Not believing God (the Holy Spirit is God) is blasphemy. Without saying it verbally, we IMPLY, that He is a LIAR.

        Salvation is instant. Sanctification takes the rest of your life. We believe that too, not sure how you’re interpreting my statements otherwise. (Yes I’m a proud Protestant, that’s my middle name).

        I don’t see how you believe in pergurtory, especially given your emphasis on what is literally stated in the Scriptures…wait…that was bfhu…but anyway…is that a Catholic bible? Are Catholics allowed to read the Bible or is it read to them by the Priest…in Latin??

        • Johah,
          I agree with you Jonah about the blasphemy of the HS.

          Purgatory is not articulated in Scripture, even in Catholic Bibles but there are allusions to it. Catholics are allowed to read the Bible and always have been except for a period of time around the Protestant Revolt when people were inflamed with individual interpretation in opposition to the Catholic Church. This was in order to protect the faithful from Protestant heresies. The Bible is to be read in union with the teaching of the Church. Nothing in scripture contradicts the teaching of the Catholic Church. But Protestant interpretation of scripture does contradict the Church. That is why they are called Protest-ant.

          • bfhu:
            Don’t you think it ultimately rests on your interpretation and therefore personal application? True, we read other people’s commentaries and opinions as a guide but when we stand before God on judgement day, it is just the two of you, no witnesses will be called from ‘The Church’, Pastor, Priest or Pope.

            Jesus asked His disciples, Who do the people say that I am? They answered; some say Elijah, some say John the Baptist, etc. And Jesus then asked a follow-up question; but who do YOU say that I am?
            That’s a profound question. It is the basis on which we will all be judged. For me, the question is not whether or not God exists or how did the world begin? The ultimate question is Who do YOU say that Jesus is? Not what the church says, or the clergy, mum & dad, community, cultural upbringing, no…YOU! You have the Word of God and the Holy Spirit, nature, society, religion, etc to find out for yourself.
            I’m not sure what the Catholic church teaching is but we will be judged individually and not whether we are Catholic or Protestant, Jew or Gentile, slave or free, Democrat or Republican, conservative or liberal…but as YOU/ME…

            We all have to answer that. Even dismissal is an answer. That’s why I tend to believe He will not return until every nation, and people’s have been reached with the story of Jesus Christ. The rain and the floods in Noah’s day did not pour until the last pair was on board and the door shut. It was Noah’s job to get them in. Meaning, if Noah took an extra day to get the last one in, the rains would have waited an extra day.

            So instead of arguing on theologies and interpretations, let’s keep the main thing the main thing and go out there looking for the lost pairs. I’m saying that more to myself than to anyone else. That was the HS. You always have the last word, Lord. Yes sir!! I’ma-gettin-outta-hia…

        • roboman40, on February 17, 2012 at 9:04 pm said:
          “It’s about being delivered into Union into the Son”
          This is “instance” just because I use a differnt laguage doesnt make wrong.
          I belive in God = The father the Son and the Holy Spirit
          “If I claim that Jesus is the Chirst with my Mouth than Iam saved” Romans Chat. 10
          I just dont belive every wing nuut pop preacher.
          God gave me a mine to Use I use it.
          God has blessed me a home Church and a Pastor w/ a Dbl Phd The education Catholic Priest Have , IGod has blessed me a council of Elders I Trust Iand take Authority from them not a wing nut pop preacher.

          Can You say your accountable Johna
          mayo please.! I eat green only. Or Im a Vegan.
          Salvation belongs to God and God oaone.
          Ps.118
          22 The stone the builders rejected
          has become the cornerstone;
          23 the LORD has done this,
          and it is marvelous in our eyes.
          24 The LORD has done it this very day;
          let us rejoice today and be glad.

          Jonhna ,
          When Jesus was born who belived he was the Chirst?
          The PAGENS not the Jews who belived and knew God through The Law.
          Pagens, mmmmm?

          Peeeps Just want to argue
          Next Jonhna is going to tell me that Justification by by Faith alone in Chirst is wrong.

          Salvation is Gods doing not ours KC sounds like its Choice. Like hold the mayo please.! I eat green only. Or Im a Vegan.

          Salvation belongs to God and God oaone.
          Ps.118
          22 The stone the builders rejected
          has become the cornerstone;
          23 the LORD has done this,
          and it is marvelous in our eyes.
          24 The LORD has done it this very day;
          let us rejoice today and be glad.

  30. Not sure what that has to do with me or the thread…perhaps if you took the time to comprehend what others are really saying, contemplate your response and not let a blood rush cloud your argument, you might be more coherent. I’ve fallen for that myself, and increasing the space between stimulus and response makes it more productive.

    I really don’t know what you’re on about here but thanks for your response. There are three parties in this conversation, You, me and bfhu. You could be mistaking my response to him/her as my response to you…if that helps…

  31. What’s the point of Gods son dying for our sins,if we’re STILL going to be judged by them anyway

    • That is a very good question. I will try to address it. When we sin we offend our eternal God. Therefore the magnitude of our sin is eternal also. We being finite, cannot ever make reparation for the magnitude of our sin against an eternal and loving God. That is why Jesus, being eternal Himself, was able to make reparation for our sins.

      But, all sin has an eternal dimension and a temporal dimension. We are able to make reparation for the temporal dimension of sin through our obedience, suffering, good works, & time in Purgatory.
      That is why the Bible has this verse:

      Colossians 1:24
      Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I do my share on behalf of His body, which is the church, in filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions.

    • Hi Tahwanda:

      It’s like a contract which needs agreement between at least two parties. Jesus (God) has done his part by dying for our sins. It is STILL up to us individually to accept that sacrificial offer as being in our stead. That’s what accepting Jesus Christ means, to accept His offer of himself to die as a penalty of sin (Romans 6:23 – For the wages of sin is death, but the free GIFT of God is eternal life through Christ). When you are given a gift, that is only half of the agreement. You can either accept/receive it, or you can reject it. The law of contract states that the most crucial element is the existence of AN OFFER and AN ACCEPTANCE of that offer for a contract to be valid and recognised in law. When you reject it, because of the law of sin & death, you have to pay for your sin yourself or some other way than Jesus Christ.

      Hebrews 10:26 states that, if we have come to the knowledge of Jesus Christ (we have heard about him and someone has shared the truth about his mission and purpose in death to us) as the sacrificial lamb and still willfully keep on our own way (sin), than their remains no more sacrifice outside of the cross. There is no other name above Jesus Christ that can be a better offering. He is the ultimate, He most likely is God, based on probabilities and a touch of faith. He hinted a lot at his deity and called it not robbery to identify himself with God. They wanted to stone him. I would have picked up a stone too myself. But this is the whole message of Christianity. Outside of Jesus Christ, AND IN HINDSIGHT, we know of no other hope for humanity. He is the new covenant of grace that is better than the law (of sin and death Romans 8??). The law says, you sin, you die. Grace says you sin, I died. If you reject his grace (new covenant), you will remain under the old covenant (law). Either way, it will be fair – that is, the law is not broken. The debt is paid, either by Jesus Christ (a sinless man) or by us individually.

      “I am the resurrection and the life; he that believes in me, though he were dead, shall live again, and he that believes in me when still alive, will never die.”

      That was the mystery surrounding Jesus arrival. If the devil knew why he was really here and that his purposeful death would redeem mankind, they would not have crucified him. Satan was played big time!! After Jesus was baptised the Holy Spirit took him to the desert to be tempted. The devil was still unsure, for he had been wrong before (Herod’s infanticides, the prophets, the judges and kings that would be messiah, were mostly killed). “If you truly are the Son of God, do this or that – in other words prove it. But Jesus didn’t give him the satisfaction AND the confirmation. Jesus knew what he was here for and marched straight into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday, accepted their Hossanas without cynicism, and picked up the cross but he was not letting the devil in on it, until it was all too late.

      Like I said before, IN HINDSIGHT, we have this highly probable assurance that this man could very well be the Son of God. The choice is then ours to make – do we accept that God’s judgement of our sin fall on Himself (Grace, Mercy) or do we wait for another? The ball is in our court, He will not force it on anyone.

      In Christ, there is therefore now no condemnation or judgement (Romans 8).

      Be blessed today.

      • Just occurred to me that I may have missed the point of your question Tahwanda. There is judgement day awaiting us all in the future. It is appointed unto all men once to die and after this, the judgement – Hebrews 9:27

        Protestants believe there are two separate judgments:

        Revelation 20:11-15 The Great White Throne Judgment
        11 Then I saw a Great White Throne, and Him who was sitting on it. The Earth and it’s skies (heavens) fled away from His presence, and there was no place found for them to hide. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and the books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the Book of Life, and the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which are recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead which were in it; and Death and Hades delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged, each one, according to what they have done. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the Lake of Fire, which is the second death. 15 Anyone not found written in the Book of Life shall be cast into the Lake of Fire.

        That’s when they pay for the wages of sin – eternal death. Remember Hebrews 10:26, it’s their choice.

        The other judgement is for believers in Jesus Christ (accepted his offer) found in Romans 14:10 and 2 Corinthians 5:10. This is NOT ABOUT SALVATION, that has already been established when they accepted Jesus Christ’s offer of salvation through his death while still on earth. This will determine whose works whether good or bad, after salvation, will earn him a reward. Sounds goofy, I know, but some people, like the Mormons believe that they will be rulers of other planets and depending on what they did and endured (martyrs earn a premium spot under the altar for instance) will get a ‘good/big’ one or otherwise. These are those who have their names found written in the Lamb’s Book of Life. So everything is recorded. The bad and low stuff will burn like straw, the good stuff we did will be further refined as gold. We ourselves, are saved through grace and faith in Jesus Christ. Heaven is a place of order. There are levels and types of angels that surround the throne with different tasks. Seraphims are the closest, burning with fire, Cherubims next then Thrones, Choirs, Archangels, etc. further and further away from God’s throne. So it could be that our works will determine how close we are to the throne, just a guess, but I would be happy with anywhere ; )

        But that’s what I want to make clear for you, this judgement is not about sin, Christ has already been judged for that. This judgement is for works. It makes sense, because works, no matter how good and noble, do not count without Christ. The Great White Throne judgement provides that closure. I’ve always had a hard time accepting that but some things I leave as unattainable for now as I see through a glass darkly.

        Feel free to correct me if you believe otherwise. We are all in the same boat here.

  32. Fact is your god is the biggest sinner of them all. he kills others because of there miss guidance in life and he sacrifices people without there will. It amazes me that we have science to prove how stupid the bible really is and people still cling on to it. Your god is evil himself and possibly the most judgmental being of all time that apparently made us and yet made us able to do sin so he can look at a distance and cast judgement. Fact is if he created us he wouldn’t give us free will like he has, he would just create us never to sin and live in happiness. For those who look at this and say we are this way because we listened the the snake in the garden of eden don’t forget that god created that too making it a liar and evil. Reality is there is no god and if there is its not a god that reflects the teachings of the bible (just my opinion)

    • You just said that because you don’t experience or know what life like with God….If your curious..try it…..He will not disappoint you….,,:-)

    • Hi Brad: I don’t think we have freewill. I lean towards Calvin, Luther, Knox and believe that we are predestined and life has been predetermined. Even Sam Harris believes that too. While he is on the right track, he stops short of a deeper principled-basis of the lack of freewill (more of physiological, neurological, psychological, but whether due to bias or other he does not acknowledge a more fundamental spiritual basis). ‘Freewill’ needs to be qualified with: past experience, conditioned perception, personality, genetic makeup, gender, biological clock (have to sleep everyday), cultural background, interests, gravity (we are free to fly with our own strength) education & training, books read, etc. etc. etc. So just that alone is enough to knock the freewill ball out of the park. There is always a prior cause or causes on which our choices depend (first-cause argument).

      Beyond that, what the biblical commentators argue is that, since God knows the end from the beginning, we are a tiny sliver of time-dwelling creatures within eternity that from our two-dimensional perspective (reflexivity) cannot perceive the third dimension which God sees from above and therefore sees the “end from the beginning”. As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. He exists outside time-space. Before you call that a “copout”, I’ll remind you that the scientists (yes tip-top scientists!!) that landed on the moon and also even without landing, just orbited the earth, saw something that changed their testimony forever. They simply viewed the house from the outside and that was enough. Here we are debating whilst still inside about what our house is about. If you want to know what water is, don’t ask the fish – Chinese proverb.

      But to be fair to you, I totally understand your POV. I am at the point where I have to make a decision whether God is real and loving or whether he is a tyrant of our own making. This is after 30+ years of being a Christian and 10 years in ministry!! Even John the Baptist had his moment of doubt; Imprisoned, he sent word to Jesus, “Are you the One, or shall we wait for another”. This was AFTER he himself baptised Jesus and heralded His ministry saying; “Behold the Lamb of God – that takes away the sins of men, Whose sandals I am not worthy to untie.” We have to be authentic and real about our doubts, fears, angers and soon enough, we will find the answers. So thank you Brad, and just like you, that is my own opinion and more importantly, experience. Forget god or gods, ask – who is this man they call Jesus? Was he real? Was he just a good man, a rebel prophet, a miracle worker or something more? His answer is still the same today,”Go and show John again those things which you do hear and see: The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.”

      May he reveal his all-sufficient grace to you too. Be encouraged today.

  33. I think that what we forget are that actions are not what do or do not get us into heaven. What gets us into Heaven is faith in Christ. We do not come to Christ through good deeds. We come to Christ through faith so He can make us good. Overall, if we understand that Christ is the one who forgives us and we repent of our sins daily while also having faith in Him as our Lord and Savior we will be going to Heaven, I believe.

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