Our Lady Of Guadalupe

panelOur Lady of Guadalupe ‘completely beyond’ scientific explanation, says researcher

Dr. Adolfo Orozco at the International Marian Congress on Our Lady of Guadalupe in Glendale, Arizona.

Phoenix, Ariz., Aug 7, 2009 / 04:10 pm (CNA).- Researcher and physicist Dr. Aldofo Orozco told participants at the International Marian Congress on Our Lady of Guadalupe that there is no scientific explanation for the 478 years of high quality-preservation of the Tilma or for the miracles that have occurred to ensure its preservation.

Dr. Orozco began his talk by confirming that the conservation of the Tilma, the cloak of St. Juan Diego on which Our Lady of Guadalupe appeared 478 years ago, “is completely beyond any scientific explanation.”

“All the cloths similar to the Tilma that have been placed in the salty and humid environment around the Basilica have lasted no more than ten years,” he explained. One painting of the miraculous image, created in 1789, was on display in a church near the basilica where the Tilma was placed. “This painting was made with the best techniques of its time, the copy was beautiful and made with a fabric very similar to that of the Tilma. Also, the image was protected with a glass since it was first placed there.”

However, eight years later, the copy of the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe was thrown away because the colors were fading and threads were breaking. In contrast, Orozco said, “the original Tilma was exposed for approximately 116 years without any kind of protection, receiving all the infrared and ultraviolet radiation from the tens of thousands of candles near it and exposed to the humid and salty air around the temple.”

Dr. Orozco then discussed the Tilma’s fabric. He noted that “one of the most bizarre characteristics of the cloth is that the back side is rough and coarse, but the front side is ‘as soft as the most pure silk, as noted by painters and scientists in 1666, and confirmed one century later in 1751 by the Mexican painter, Miguel Cabrera.”

Following an analysis of some of the fibers in 1946, it was concluded that the fibers came from the Agave plant, however, noted Dr. Orozco, the researchers couldn’t figure out which of the 175 Agave species the Tilma was made from. Years later, in 1975, “the famous Mexican researcher Ernesto Sodi Pallares said that the species of the agave was Agave popotule Zacc,” Orozco explained, “but we don’t know how he reached this conclusion.”

Before concluding his presentation, Dr. Orozco made mention of two miracles associated with the Tilma.

The first occurred in 1785 when a worker accidentally spilled a 50 percent nitric acid solvent on the right side of the cloth. “Besides any natural explanation, the acid has not destroyed the fabric of the cloth, indeed it has not even destroyed the colored parts of the image,” Orozco said.

The second miracle was the explosion of a bomb near the Tilma in 1921. Dr. Orozco recalled that the explosion broke the marble floor and widows 150 meters from the explosion, but “unexpectedly, neither the Tilma nor the normal glass that protected the Tilma was damaged or broken.” The only damage near it was a brass crucifix that was twisted by the blast.

He continued, “There are no explanations why the shockwave that broke windows 150 meters afar did not destroy the normal glass that protected the image. Some people said that the Son by means of the brass crucifix protected the image of His Mother. The real fact is that we don’t have a natural explanation for this event.”

Dr. Orozco thanked the audience for listening to his presentation and closed by reassuring them that “Our Lady visited Mexico 478 years ago, but she remains there to give Her Love, Her Mercy and Her Care to anyone who needs it, and to bring Her Son, Jesus Christ to everyone who receives Him.”

The Immaculate Conception Contradicts Scripture

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Q. I understand why you would think Mary was saved prior to her birth, but it simply doesn’t line up with what Jesus said. He died once for all of us. The perfect sacrifice without spot nor blemish. It had to be a blood sacrifice! He didn’t die once for Mary and then again at Calvary for the rest of us. It simply doesn’t make any sense at all. Ref: Romans 6:10
10The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

BFHU: Jesus’ death saved everyone Before Christ (including Mary’s immaculate conception) and AD =Anno Domine. We do not think Jesus had to die twice.

Q. Then how could Mary be born without sin, if Jesus died after her. Makes no sense at all.

BFHU: Just as all of the OT saints were saved in anticipation of the atonement of Christ, so Mary was saved from sin before she ever sinned by Christ her savior, her son. Her sinlessness was a great gift of grace from God. She was fully human, free of the stain of original sin she was created in innocence and purity just like Adam and Eve. Just like we all might have been born (free from sin), if not for the fault of our first parents.

With God all things are possible. He is not bound by TIME. He is outside of it and able to save Mary from the stain of original sin by the merits of Christ Jesus. Don’t you agree that He could do this if He wanted to? I am sure you don’t think that this is too hard for the Almighty.

Mary is exactly the same as Adam and Eve were before the Fall. The difference is she kept herself pure,with the grace and power of God to assist her. Jesus is the new Adam and Mary is the new Eve.

Yes Jesus died for the saints of old~the priest’s were no longer required to burn offerings for the remission of sin, because Jesus was the final sacrifice~the lamb without spot nor blemish, but This is no way infers that Mary was born without original sin. It’s a romantic idea, but nothing in scripture old or new testament points to this idea. Her immaculate conception didn’t make her holy. She was simply faithful and obedient to the call God had on her life. No different than anyone else who’s obedient to the call of God.

BFHU: Except she was able to keep from sinning.

No different than anyone else who received a miracle from Jesus.

BFHU: Of course, miracles are all by the power of God, as was her Immaculate Conception.

Jesus said, All have sinned and All fall short of the Glory of God. No where does it infer All, but Mary.

BFHU:Neither does it infer ‘all but Jesus’.

Mary had other children. (She was not ever virgin) I believe the Catholic church still teaches that and it clearly states in the word that Jesus had Half Brother’s and Sisters as well.

BFHU: The Protestant interpretation of the the verses referring to the brothers of sisters of Jesus is certainly legitimate. But there is also another legitimate interpretation which the Catholic Church teaches. And that is that these were not siblings of Jesus, half, step, or otherwise but kinsman. The Greek word used in these passages can be used exactly as our word for brother and sister can be used to mean an actual sibling or a close family member or other close relationship as many Pastors say, “Brothers and Sisters…” They do not mean siblings. And neither did St. Paul when he addressed his epistles to <em>brothers If Protestants try to force the literal sibling interpretation when adelphos is used for Jesus’ brothers then they will be forced by their own hermenutic to interpret all of the epistles and being directed only to the siblings of the author.

If Joseph kept her a virgin throughout their entire marriage then he should get the kudos x a million!

BFHU: St. Joseph was a very holy man. That is why he was chosen to be the husband of Mary.

Poor Joseph~not much is stated about him in the word, nor is much honor given him, but he was an obedient servant of the Lord by keeping Mary a virgin till Jesus was Born. Under Jewish Law he could have had her stoned. In response to a previous point regarding sola scriptura , read John’s warning Revelation 22:18-19. 18. I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

BFHU: Are you aware that this same admonition was made in the OT three times. Does that make the New Testament illegitimate? Deuteronomy 4:2 You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. Deuteronomy 12:32 Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take away from it. Proverbs 30:6 Do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar.

God takes His Word very seriously. He’s a God of order and that’s what I love about Him and His Word. It follows very logical patterns of thought. He doesn’t mince words.

BFHU: I totally agree.

Linda Douglas trying to do damage control.

SHOCKING TRUTH ABOUT HEALTH CARE INSURANCE REFORM– OBAMA CAN’T REMEMBER WHAT HE SAID!!

What Obama ACTUALLY said…..

SHOCK UNCOVERED: Obama IN HIS OWN WORDS saying His Health Care Plan will ELIMINATE private insurance

Atonement, Salvation, & Temporal Punishment for Sin


I would like to ask you about the Atonement and forgiveness, the Mass, Salvation and temporal punishment.

The Catholic view of the Atonement is that when Jesus died on the cross of Calvary he died for the Eternal puinishment of Sin. So when A Catholic sins either Mortally or Venially and then repents and goes to a Catholic priest for the sacrament of penance and gets Absolution he is let off the Eternal puinishment of his Sins BUT he has to work off OR Expiate the Temporal Punishment of his sins by Prayers and indulgences and if he does not work the temporal punishment off in his/her lifetime then he/she will have to expiate them in Purgatory.

I have described these Catholic beliefs to Protestants, Anglicans and Eastern orthodox Christians and they think that it is a Load of HOG WASH.

They do not believe in temporal puinishment or in a Fire-Purgatory where sins that have been absolved in confession are punished and paid for in Purgatory or in this life.

BFHU: It may not be actual fire but something signified by the pain of fire.

They all believe that when jesus died on the Cross he died for ALL OUR SINS and all the punishment due for them.

Catholicism seems to them a SAD RELIGION because you have to spend most of your life avoiding sin and then when you sin you have to worry about expiating or working off the temporal punishment for your sins and if you do not do it during your lifetime then YOU GET NAILED IN PURGATORY!!!!

BFHU: All a very small price to pay for an Eternity in Heaven. This life is very short by comparison. We can have an easy life for 80 years but then as Jesus said, “you will have received your reward” I’ll take my reward in Heaven. Thank you very much.

Then there is Salvation. Most evangelical protestant believe in ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED. JUSTIFICATION is a once for all declaration of forgiveness FOLLOWED BY SANCTIFICATION and then INSTANTANEOUS GLORIFICATION AFTER DEATH.

Catholics on the other hand believe that Salvation is a process begun in Baptism and strengthened by the GRACES OF THE SACRAMENTS, prayer, holiness and good works as well as ongoing repentance.
Then at death there is the PARTICULAR JUDGEMENT and then either heaven, Purgatory or Hell.

The Mass also plays an important role in the Salvation of the living and the dead in the intermediate state of Purgatory.
It is a true, proper real and PROPITIATORY SACRIFICE ( I.E. SIN FORGIVING SACRIFICE ) Which benefits the living and the dead.

Each mass is getting the Catholic closer to Heaven and then there will be many Masses said after his/her death also for his/her eternal salvation.

To Protestants this all complicates things as they believe that all their sins are forgiven by Christ once for all sacrifice and that they are SAVED and will go to Heaven when they die.

BFHU: Many of them don’t even think it is important to examine their consciences either.

Traditional Catholicism would say that Salvation has different tenses in the New testament in that WE WERE SAVED when Christ died for us on the cross PAST TENSE. Then we are also being saved, PRESENT TENSE, OR in a state of Salvation by being members of his body the Church. We were called to this state of salvation when we were baptised and we will be saved FUTURE TENSE after the final judgement IF WE HAVE WALKED WORTHY OF OUR CALLING.

I just wanted to share these thoughts and ideas with you and I would be very grateful if you would like to add or comment on what I have stated here.

Dear Philip,
Nice to hear from you again. The way you explained these ideas is pretty much on target. The Catholic Church would describe Purgatory as a purification from the sin but expiation has also been used historically. Of course, the other religions think it is hog wash b/c they do not like these ideas. But, they line up much more with the reality of sin and punishment in the real world than their view of NO CONSEQUENCES WHATSOEVER FOR THE MOST EGREGIOUS SINS AS LONG AS YOU LOVE JESUS.

In the real world if I tell a lie and feel sorry afterwards and ask for God to forgive me. He does. But the consequences remain. If someone finds out I have lost someone’s trust in my honesty. Even if no one finds out I have lost a bit of self respect. If not then I might lie more until I do finally suffer obvious consequences.

If I rob a bank and get caught I go to jail even if Jesus has forgiven me. If I don’t get caught I live in fear of getting caught. If not I will continue in crime until I do get caught.

If I have an abortion I might suffer permanent physical damage, or be unable to retain a pregnancy I want later, and/or suffer the guilt of knowing deep down inside that I killed my baby, even if I love Jesus.

Why would it be any different or should it be any different when we offend an Eternal and Holy God. If Jesus had to suffer and die for the consequences of sin, why shouldn’t we take up our cross and follow Him?

Where is Purgatory in Scripture?


Q. What scriptures support the Doctrine of Purgatory?
A. I cannot give any scripture that categorically teaches the Doctrine of Purgatory that would satisfy a sola scriptura Christian.
I can show you Scriptures that imply the existence of the doctrine. I can show you writings of the early Church Fathers, written before the Bible was even canonized, that teach the Doctrine of Purgatory. I can show you that the concept, of the need for purification, after death and before attaining Heaven, has roots in the Jewish Faith. Click on this link–>Sola Scriptura & Purgatory Then follow all the links on that page.

If you are able to believe it is possible to sit down, 2000 years after the birth of Jesus and read scripture and interpret it infallibly all by yourself, disregarding historic Christian beliefs in the years immediately following the death of the apostles, you have more faith than I do. But, by what authority can you claim infallibility? Because, if you are convinced that you can interpret scripture without error, even without saying it openly, you must believe you are able to interpret infallibly.

What Scriptures Support Catholic Doctrines?

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Q. What scriptures support Catholic beliefs?
A. You ask for this because youare convinced that the Bible should be the final authority for Christian beliefs. But, think about it. Sola Scriptura would never have caught on if it had not been invented after the invention of the printing press
. Before the invention of the printing press one Bible would have cost the equivalent of $25,000 US. At that cost how many of us would own our own Bible?

Besides most people could not even read, until the last century. And even today 20% of the world’s population cannot read.

Would God have made salvation dependent upon reading and owning your own Bible no matter how much it cost for the whole history of Christianity? And what about the 20% of people who still can’t read? Are they just out of luck along with millions of people for the last 2000 years who could not read? Or…did Christ found a Church that read scripture every day at mass and handed down the oral teaching of the Apostles to the faithful? Just like the Catholic Church.

Traditions of Men


Dear Jane,

Let me clear some things up for you.

Jane: You state an oxymoron. Pick one. Base your beliefs on scripture alone or scripture plus man or man’s version of scripture.

BFHU:
The Catholic Church does not base her beliefs on any of the above except one: a Divine man, Jesus Christ. Our beliefs are based on the teachings of the Apostles, who received their teachings from Jesus. Jesus never wrote His teachings down. Jesus never instructed the apostles to write anything down let alone to instruct Christians to only base their beliefs upon what they wrote down. The whole world could not contain the books that would be needed as St. John says in Jn.21:25.

Jane:Scripture declares itself an end all be all unit for the purpose of salvation and disregards additions or corrections.

BFHU: Where? I noticed that you have not supplied us with a verse from scripture. You have on your own authority made a statement. But I don’t know you and cannot accept your authority. Sorry.

Jane: So, a posture of scripture plus man’s tradition declares the scripture to be faulty, that it needs man to help it along.

BFHU: Not at all. We do not believe in the “traditions of men” in the sense that they are condemned in Sacred Scripture. When the Catholic Church teaches from TRADITION she means by that “What has been handed down”


Tradition:

a.(among Jews) body of laws and doctrines, or any one of them, held to have been received from Moses and originally handed down orally from generation to generation.
b.(among Christians) a body of teachings, or any one of them, held to have been delivered by Christ and His apostles but not originally committed to writing. (Dictionary.com)

We simply follow St. Paul when he exhorts in his letters:

1 Corinthians 11:2 Now I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold firmly to the traditions, just as I delivered them to you.

2 Thessalonians 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you received from us.

2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.

Jane: Or, you could just get out the black marker and cross out all the parts you don’t like.

BFHU:
We would never do that. All of Sacred Scripture is the infallible word of God. Jane, those who have taught you have failed to teach all of Scripture. When I was a Protestant, dealing with Eternal Security (a Protestant issue) it became clear to me that the Calvinists treated Scripture as if certain passages were highlighted and the rest could be passed over or totally ignored. I was amazed. And yet they still claimed to believe EVERYTHING in Scripture.

As i said before:

“The irony is that this Protestant Doctrine of Scripture Alone or Sola Scriptura cannot be found anywhere in Scripture.”

The Stoning of Soraya M movie trailer

Catholics Worship Mary! The Hail Mary Proves it.


Maria; Just check the title of one of “the OFFICIAL prayers of the Church” – HAIL Mary. It made me smile. Will you say that “hailing” is NOT the same as “worshipping”?

BFHU: The word hail simply means greetings. Hailing is absolutely not the same as worshiping. In the USA we play the song Hail to the Chief for the Pres. of the US. Do you think Americans therefore worship the President?
Maria: So assuming that you really are not worshiping Mary, let’s go to “Do we need to ask Mary or the saints to pray for us?”

BFHU:
No. It is NOT mandatory.

Maria:
The Bible says that it is only Jesus who can bridge the gap between us and God. (1 Timothy 2:5) So, it is clear then that Mary nor any other saints is ‘good’ enough to intercede between us and God. Only God is good enough for that. (Matthew 19:17; Mark 10:18)

BFHU:

James 5:16 pray for one another so that you may be healed The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.

So you reject this Scripture along with Martin Luther? Intercessory prayer IS a form of mediation.

Maria: It is true that the prayer of an righteous person is powerful.
Now the question is “What makes a person righteous?

BFHU: Mary was righteous. Even more so than Abraham.