Suffering & Purgatory


Q. I have heard that Purgatory was a late invention by Roman Catholicism to make money to build Catholic Churches.
i.e. TETZEL the Dominican friar who sold Indulgences in 1517 in Germany.

I do believe as a Catholic that there will be some form of Purification after death in order to prepare us for heaven.

I am not just keen on the SUFFERING BIT of purgatory as nobody likes to suffer!

A. Yes, Tetzel’s selling of indulgences in Germany lit the fire under Martin Luther. And Luther was correct, Tetzel was abusing the the teachings of the Church in order to raise money. But Purgatory was NOT invented as a fundraising scheme in the 1500’s. As you may have seen the Jews long before Christianity believed in a purification after death. The Name PURGATORY was given to conceptualize this purification, just like Trinity and Incarnation which we have already said are not in the Bible. This name may have come into use later but I don’t know at what date.

Try not to worry about the suffering in Purgatory. We also suffer here in this life and if offered up in union with Christ it will enable to remove some of the suffering we are due in Purgatory. Just as the suffering in this life is not unbearable so our suffering in Purgatory will be bearable. But our Catholic doctrine of suffering is so very beautiful. If we can recollect ourselves and rejoice in our suffering as Peter says in his epistle and offer it up for our own purification or the Holy Souls in Purgatory we can begin our Purgatory in this life. It changes every suffering great and small and brings us so much peace in the midst of our suffering; unlike those who just grit their teeth and bear it, and believe there is no purpose or reason for their suffering. We can also avoid time in Purgatory by giving alms and of course diligently AVOIDING SIN.

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2 Responses

  1. Purgatory is an insult to Jesus who died on the cross for our sins. He took that from us through his suffering! Paying for masses to get loved ones out of purgatory? It costs the Catholics here $30.00 for a mass. Multiply that by at least 10 masses per year that are honoring “the dead” then multiply that by how many Catholics die each year….hhmmm who said it wasn’t to make money? Then why do they charge their parishioners? Your priest is saying mass does it not “count” until you pay for the mass?? You don’t pray for dead people, pray for the living who really need prayer as there are so many that are questionable about their salvation, and the belief in God. God is a very loving God, but according to the bible not everyone goes to heaven just because they’re dead and believe in God. Catholics need to read their bibles. That’s all you need to strengthen your relationship with Jesus. The bible is God’s Word, why should man made traditions decided by the Pope be the focus of your faith. Jesus tells us in his word how we are to live our lives, and strive to be more like HIM! Not the Pope!
    If I asked the question “don’t you believe in the bible?” What your rightly saying is you don’t believe in God’s word. Your are only believing what you want to believe. I’m tired of people saying “I don’t think God would do this or that he’s a loving God.” You don’t need to think about it read what Jesus has to say about any sin committed by reading the bible. You will be amazed! And sin is sin the idea of mortal sin and the other sin you catholics believe in is wrong. God says every sin is sin and He says to us in the Word that very fact. He is the only one to judge sin. Also there is to be no mediator between you and God. You repent your sins to God and as Him for his forgiveness, that is what reconciliation is. Why does this need to be discussed by a priest? Does he then write them down and hand them over to God? You are putting Priest above God and that is SIN. Saying 20 hail mary’s and 43 Our Fathers…???? is that conviction? Learning about Jesus and God through the Word is it, it’s that simple.
    What are you learning if you do go to church if they say and do the same thing every single week. Yes they do read a scripture every week but who’s really listening and living by it? I was a Catholic for 35+ years. Thank GOD I listened to Him, HE knows I learning from His Words, not man’s words or traditions.
    What I’ve learned about Jesus in the first month after joining a bible based church, is more than I learned in the 35+ years of being a Catholic. Oh I could go on please respond if you’d like. I’m not degrading Catholics, my mom is a Catholic , but knowing the truth now is amazing. I pray every day for her salvation. One more thing, with all the sex scandles that have been ‘reported’ and all the big monies being paid out to these people did you realize that the Vatican is not paying a dime to assist the churches with the expenses incurred due to these horrible horrible crimes? I could go on but can’t I welcome anyone to discuss with me.


  2. Purgatory is an insult to Jesus who died on the cross for our sins. He took that from us through his suffering!
    This is a common misconception among Protestants. Nathan told King David that his sins were forgiven (Bathsheba & Uriah)but that he would suffer many temporal consequences because of his sins and that his son would die. Jesus’ suffering and death redeemed us from the ETERNAL consequences of sin–only and eternal God could do that. But we pay the temporal price for our sins. How else can we explain Paul’s statement in

    Colossians 1:24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I do my share on behalf of His body, which is the church, in filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions.

    Paying for masses to get loved ones out of purgatory? It costs the Catholics here $30.00 for a mass. Multiply that by at least 10 masses per year that are honoring “the dead” then multiply that by how many Catholics die each year….hhmmm who said it wasn’t to make money? Then why do they charge their parishioners? Your priest is saying mass does it not “count” until you pay for the mass??

    It is a donation when it is given it is not mandatory. It is a freewill offering and no more a moneymaking operation than any other freewill offering or fund raiser. And each mass can be said only for one intention. So, even if each mass brought in $30, that would only be $10-20,000 (we have 7 Sunday masses plus daily masses) a year which will not even pay the rent. For the parishioner, we give our tithes to the church anyway so designating some of this for masses to be said for loved ones even at a donation of $30 per mass is no big deal.

    The Catholic Culture is different than Protestant Culture. We do things a little differently. But just because we designate some of our tithe for masses doesn’t make it any more of an evil moneymaking scheme than putting your tithe in the offerning basket each Sunday as is done in Protestant Churches.

    You don’t pray for dead people, pray for the living who really need prayer as there are so many that are questionable about their salvation, and the belief in God.

    We do pray for the living, of couse. For the salvation of souls and all kinds of needs. But in addition we pray for our brothers and sisters in Christ who are suffering in Purgatory. They are still part of the body of Christ. And so are are those Saints who are in Heaven. We ask them to pray for us. In our Catholic Faith we continue to love and pray for each other. Death does not separate us from the love and grace of God in the Body of Christ.

    God is a very loving God, but according to the bible not everyone goes to heaven just because they’re dead and believe in God.

    That is absolutely true according to Catholic dogma too.

    Catholics need to read their bibles.

    Catholics DO read scripture. Every Priest and most nuns read and pray the scriptures two or more times a day. Many other Catholics read scripture and go to Bible studies too. In three years we hear nearly the whole Bible just by listening to the readings at mass.

    That’s all you need to strengthen your relationship with Jesus.

    I would have to disagree with you that READING the Bible is all you need. You only say that b/c today Bibles are plentiful and most of us can read. But did you know that 20% of the world population today still cannot read. And back during the time of the early Church most people COULD NOT READ. And a church was lucky if it could afford a whole Bible because they were so expensive before the time of the printing press. That is why the Catholic Church has always read sacred scripture to her children at mass.

    The bible is God’s Word, why should man made traditions decided by the Pope be the focus of your faith.

    We do not believe in man made traditions. We believe in the Christian faith as Jesus taught it to His disciples and as it was passed on through apostolic teaching. The Catholic Faith existed and evangelized the ancient world for 400 years before the New Testament was canonized. The New Testament was born out of the Catholic Christian Church and nothing in it is contradicted by Catholic teaching.

    Jesus tells us in his word how we are to live our lives, and strive to be more like HIM!

    I agree.

    Not the Pope!

    The Pope never says anything other than what is in conformity with Christ. You know about the Prophets of the Old Testament. These prophets spoke God’s word to the people of Israel. The pope is a Prophet of God for His New Testament people.

    If I asked the question “don’t you believe in the bible?” What your rightly saying is you don’t believe in God’s word. Your are only believing what you want to believe. I’m tired of people saying “I don’t think God would do this or that he’s a loving God.” You don’t need to think about it read what Jesus has to say about any sin committed by reading the bible. You will be amazed! And sin is sin the idea of mortal sin and the other sin you catholics believe in is wrong.

    Then are you saying that the Apostle John was wrong about his ideas about Mortal Sin and lesser, venial sin?

    I John 5:16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death There is a sin leading to death;I do not say that he should make request for this.17All unrighteousness is sin, but there is a sin not leading to death.

    Here John talks about two kinds of sin: Sin-no-leading-to death and sin-leading-to-death. We have simply named them Venial and Mortal sin.

    God says every sin is sin and He says to us in the Word that very fact.

    You are correct but not every sin is equal to every other sin. Except in one way and that is that any sin great or small is enough to separated us from God.

    But God calls some sins “an abomination” (click here http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/index.php?search=abomination&searchtype=all&version1=9&spanbegin=1&spanend=73&startnumber=126

    and these are listed in the scripture. And Paul speaks about deadly sins, mortal sins also.

    He is the only one to judge sin.

    Absolutely.

    Also there is to be no mediator between you and God. You repent your sins to God and as Him for his forgiveness, that is what reconciliation is. Why does this need to be discussed by a priest?

    We are simply following the teaching of Jesus. In John 20:21-23 Jesus, alone with His disciples conferred upon them a special gift of grace for the sacrament of confession. He breathed on them and gave them the authority to bind and loose from sin. (The only other time God breathed on anyone was in Genesis–the breath of life for Adam & here is the fulfillment– the priest, by the power of God, gives life through reconciliation) To forgive or not. A man cannot decide to confer forgiveness without hearing the audible confession of a man. Therefore, in order to follow Christ we confess our sins to the ministers of Christ, our Priests. They hear our confession and for the good of our souls try to determine our true repentance and pronounce the forgiveness of God to us…or not.Even if we fool the priest and are not truly sorry for our sin and plan to avoid it, God is NOT fooled and are sins are not forgiven by God just b/c we might fool the priest.

    Does he then write them down and hand them over to God?

    No, God is present. The priest is God’s representative and speaks for God to us.

    You are putting Priest above God and that is SIN.

    It would be a sin if we actually did that but I can assure you no Catholic puts the priest above God.At least I have never met one.

    Saying 20 hail mary’s and 43 Our Fathers…???? is that conviction?

    Saying a few prayers as penance after confession is a mild reminder that we must make reparation for the temporal consequences of our sin. Only God knows what these actually are.

    Learning about Jesus and God through the Word is it, it’s that simple.
    What are you learning if you do go to church if they say and do the same thing every single week.

    Every week we do not do the same thing. We listen to the Bible and then the priest teaches us from the scripture we have just read. Some priests are better teachers than others. But every week we do celebrated the sacrifice of Christ and his resurrection from the dead to save us from our sin. Every week we receive the bread from Heaven, food for our souls to strengthen us for our journey through this life to stay on track with God.

    Yes they do read a scripture every week but who’s really listening and living by it?

    I am sure some are and some are not, exactly as you will find in the Protestant churches. The church feeds her children. But as you know man has free will and may choose to waste his time in church.

    I was a Catholic for 35+ years. Thank GOD I listened to Him, HE knows I learning from His Words, not man’s words or traditions.
    What I’ve learned about Jesus in the first month after joining a bible based church, is more than I learned in the 35+ years of being a Catholic.

    I am glad you are learning so much. Unfortunately, in many places, the Catholic Church failed to teach the faith well to at least two generations of children after Vatican II. That is changing. Come back to Mother Church.

    Oh I could go on please respond if you’d like. I’m not degrading Catholics, my mom is a Catholic , but knowing the truth now is amazing.

    All the truth that you are learning came from the Church founded by Jesus on Peter. The Catholic Church.

    I pray every day for her salvation.

    One more thing, with all the sex scandles that have been ‘reported’ and all the big monies being paid out to these people did you realize that the Vatican is not paying a dime to assist the churches with the expenses incurred due to these horrible horrible crimes?

    I personally, do not see why the Vatican should pay for any of it. The problems and crimes were not advocated, approved, encouraged, or part of Vatican policy. So why should the Vatican pay for it? In our country it was bad management and sin and ignorance. The huge sums are very unfortunate but how can the spiritual damage ever be paid for. I am just glad that God is purifying the Church through this. That is a good thing.

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