NAV: Prayer is only to be directed to our God, who can listen and hear my prayer…
BFHU: Could you please support this with Scripture?
NAV: If we pray to Mary at the same time at different parts of this world do you think she could hear us?… only God could hear us all at the same time anywhere, any place in this universe for our God is all present all at the same time… Can Mary or any other saint do that?…
BFHU: Not by their own power. But God could make it possible for them.
NAV: they are not God but just man a sinful man like you and me…
BFHU: True we know they are human and not divine. And yes, of course, the Saints did sin, some more than others, except Mary who was free from all sin from the first moment of her conception.
NAV: we have already a mediator between man and God that is Jesus Christ who died for us,
BFHU: Then do you think asking friends to pray for you is wrong? If asking Mary and the Saints to pray for us makes them other mediators then anyone who prays for us is also another mediator. And yet scripture commands us to pray for one another. So, I would like to suggest that intercessory prayer is not a form of mediation that would somehow usurp the uniqueness of Christ being The One Mediator between God and men.
NAV: So our prayer or anything we will ask should and should only be directed directly to Jesus Christ our God and redeemer alone, and to no one for He has not commanded us to do so..
BFHU: I would have to see where God has commanded us Not to ask for the intercessory prayer of the Saints in Sacred Scripturre. Actually, He has, in fact, commanded us to pray for one another. And the Saints in Heaven and on Earth and in Purgatory are all a part of the Body of Christ. And we all commune with each other through our prayers. We don’t “pray” to them as gods but as brothers and sisters in Christ.
NAV: But to Him alone we ask or pray… For our God is a jealous God He want all our prayer to be directed only to Him alone not to Mary or to any other saint or person whom He has just created…
BFHU: Scripture support, please?
NAV: Regarding, James instructing us to pray for one another the instruction is for a live person not dead …
BFHU: True, I guess the difference between Protestants and Catholics is that we don’t see our Saints as dead but alive in Christ and in Heaven. Only their bodies are dead but their souls are very much alive.
NAV: (prayers of a righteous man avails much) because it avails much and we ask it thru Jesus’ name as Jesus instructed us to ask anything in His name it shall be given… And not thru Mary’s name because she is not God and can do nothing to hear us or intercede in behalf of us…
BFHU: We only ask Mary and the Saints to pray FOR us. We don’t ask our prayers in the name of Mary or in the name of St. Francis. We ask in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. And because of the heroic virtue of Mary and the Saints, we know they are righteous and that their prayers avail much. This is why we ask for their intercession.
Filed under: Mary, Prayer to Saints |
Bread From Heaven 
this is incredibly helpful. thanks for your prayers for my brother, btw. In Christ…
Praise the Lord
My Dear Beloved Brothers & Sisters In Jesus Christ,
Perhaps the most outstanding proof that Mary worship developed out of the old worship of the pagan mother goddess may be seen from the fact that in pagan religion, the mother was worshipped as much (or more) than her son! This provides an outstanding clue to help us solve the mystery of Babylon today!
True Christianity teaches that the Lord Jesus Christ and He alone is The way, The Truth and The Life; that He alone, of all the earth’s creatures, has ever lived a life that was never stained with sin; and He is to be Worshipped, never His mother but Roman Catholicism showing the influence that paganism has had in its development in many ways exalts the MOTHER also.
One can travel the world over, and whether in a massive cathedral or in a village chapel, the statue of Mary will occupy a prominent position. In reciting the Rosary the “Hail Mary” is repeated nine times as often as the “Lords Prayer”. Catholics are taught that the reason for praying to Mary is that she can take the petition to her Son, Jesus Christ and since she is His mother He will answer the request for her sake. The inference is that Mary is more compassionate, understanding, and merciful than her Son Jesus Christ. Certainly this is contrary to the scriptures! Yet this idea has often been repeated in Catholic writings.
One noted Roman Catholic writer Alphonsus Liguori, wrote at length telling how more effectual prayers are that are addressed to Mary rather than to Christ. Liguori incidently, was canonized as a “Saint” by Pope Gregory XIV in 1839 and was declared a “doctor of the Catholic Church by Pope Pius IX. In one portion of his writings, he described an imaginary scene in which a sinful man saw two ladders hanging from heaven. Mary was at top of one and Jesus on top of the other. When the sinner tried to climb the one ladder, he saw a angry face of Christ and fell defeated, but when he climbed Mary’s ladder he ascended easily and was openly welcomed by Mary who brought him into heaven and presented him to Christ! Then all was well. The story was supposed to show how much easier and more effective it is to go to Christ through Mary.
The same writer said that the sinner who ventures to come directly to Christ may come with dread of his wrath, but if he prays to the Virgin, she will only have to “show” the son “the breasts that gave him suck”
And his wrath will be immediately appeased! Such reasoning is in direct conflict with scriptural example. “Blessed is the womb that bare thee”, a woman said to Jesus, “and the paps that thou has sucked!” but Jesus answered, “Yea, rather blessed are they that hear the word of God and keep it”. (Luke 11:27-28).
Such ideas about the breasts, on the other hand, were not foreign to the worshippers of the pagan mother goddess. Images of her have been unearthed which often show her breasts extremely out of proportion to her body. In the case of Diana, to symbolize her fertility, she is picture with as many as one hundred breasts!
Further attempts to exalt Mary to a glorified position within Catholicism may be seen in the doctrine of the “immaculate conception.” This doctrine was pronounced and defined by Pius IX in 1854 that the Blessed Virgin Mary “in the first instant of her conception … was preserved exempt from all stain of original sin.” It would appear that this teaching is only a further effort to make Mary more closely resemble the goddess of paganism, for in the old myths; the goddess was also believed to have had a supernatural conception! The stories varied, but all told of supernatural happenings in connection with her entrance into the world, that she was superior to ordinary mortals, that she was divine.
Little by little, so that the teachings about Mary would not appear inferior to those of the mother goddess, it was necessary to teach that Mary’s entrance into the world involved a supernatural element also!
Is the doctrine that Mary was born without the stain of original sin scriptural? We will answer this in the words of The Catholic Encyclopedia itself: “No direct or categorical and stringent proof of the dogma can be brought forward from scripture”. It is pointed out, rather that these ideas were gradual development within the Church.
Right here it should be explained that this is a basic, perhaps the basic, difference between the Roman Catholic approach to Christianity and the general Protestant view. The Roman Catholic Church, as it acknowledges, has long grown and developed around a multitude of traditions and ideas handled down by Church fathers over the centuries, even the beliefs brought over from paganism if they could be “Christianized” and also the Scriptures. Concepts from all these sources have been mixed together and developed, finally to become dogmas at various Church councils. On the other hand, the view which the Protestants Reformation sought to revive was a return to the actual scriptures as a more sound basic for doctrine, with little or no emphasis on the ideas that developed in later centuries.
Going right to the scriptures, not only is any proof for the idea of Immaculate Conception of Mary lacking, there is evidence to the contrary. While she was a chosen vessel of the LORD, was a godly and virtuous woman –a virgin—she was as much a human as any other member of Adam’s family. “For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God” (Rom3:23), the only exception being Jesus Christ himself. Like anyone else, Mary needed a Saviour and plainly admitted this when she said: “And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my SAVIOUR” (Luke 1:47).
If Mary needed a Saviour, then she needed to be Saved, Forgiven and Redeemed as others. The fact is our Lord’s divinity did not depend on his mother being some type of exalted, divine person.
Instead, He was divine because He was the only begotten Son of God.
His divinity came from His heavenly Father.
The idea that Mary was superior to other human being was not the teaching of Jesus Christ. Once someone mentioned His mother and brethren. Jesus asked “Who is my mother? And who are my brethren?” Then stretching forth his hand towards His disciples said “Behold my mother and my brethren! For WHOSOEVER shall do the will of my Father which in heaven, the same is my brother and sister and MOTHER” (Mathew12:46-50). Plainly enough, anyone who does the will of God is, in definite sense, on the same level with Mary.
Each day Catholics the world over recites the Hail Mary, the Rosary, the Angelus, the Litanies of the Blessed Virgin and others. Multiplying the number of these prayers, times the number of Catholics who recite them each day, someone has estimated that Mary would have to listen to 46,296petitions a second!
Obviously no one but God himself could do this. Nevertheless, Catholics believe that Mary hears all of these prayers and so of necessity, they have had to exalt her to the divine level –scriptural or not!
Attempting to justify the way Mary has been exalted, some have quoted the words of Gabriel to Mary, “Blessed art thou among woman” (Luke1:28), but Mary being “blessed among women” cannot make her a divine person, for many centuries before this, a similar blessing was pronounced upon Jael, of whom it was said: “blessed above woman shall Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite be ….” (Judges5:24).
Before Pentecost, Mary gathered with the other disciples waiting for the promise of the Holy Spirit. We read that the apostles “all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus and His brethren” (Acts1:14). Typical of Catholic ideas concerning Mary, the illustration (as seen in the Official Baltimore Catechism) attempts to give Mary a central position but as all students of the Bible know, that the disciples were not looking to Mary on that occasion. They were looking to their resurrected and ascended CHRIST to outpour on them the gift of Holy Spirit. We also notice in the drawings and in pictures show Mary in the center of the disciples and the Holy Spirit (as a dove) is seen hovering over her! Yet as far as the scriptural account is concerned, the only one person upon whom the spirit as a dove descended was Jesus himself – not His mother!
On the other hand, the pagan virgin goddess under the name of Juno was often represented with dove on her head, as was also Astarte, Cybele and Isis!
Further attempts to glorify Mary may be seen in the Roman Catholic doctrine of perpetual virginity.
This is the teaching that Mary remained a virgin throughout her life. The Encyclopedia Britannica explains the doctrine on the perpetual virginity of Mary was not taught until about three hundred years after the ascension of Jesus Christ. It was not until the council of chacedon in 451 that this fabulas quality gained the official recognition of Rome.
According to the scriptures, the birth of Jesus was result of a supernatural conception (Mathew 1:23) without an earthly father, after Jesus was born, Mary gave birth to other children–natural offspring of her union with Joseph her husband. Jesus was Mary’s “first born” son (Mathew1:25) it does not say He was her only child. Jesus being her first born child could certainly infer that later she had second born child, possibly a third-born child etc. That such was the case seems apparent for the names of four brothers are mentioned 1)James, Joseph, Simon and Judas (Mathew13:55). Sisters are also mentioned. The people of Nazareth said: “…. and his sisters are they not all with us?” (Mathew13:56) The word “sisters” is plural, of course so we know that Jesus had at least two sisters and probably more, for this verse speaks of “all” his sisters. Usually if we are referring to only two people we would say “both” of them, not “all” of them.
The implication is that at least three sisters are referred to, if we figure three sisters and four brothers, half brothers and half sisters of Jesus this would make Mary the mother of eight children.
The scripture say “Joseph … “knew her not” till she had brought forth her first born son: and he called his name “JESUS” (Mathew1:25, Luke 2:7). Joseph “knew her not” until after Jesus was born, but after that, Mary and Joseph did come together as husband and wife and children were born to them.
The idea that Joseph kept Mary as a virgin all of her life is clearly unscriptural.
During the times of the falling away, as though to more closely identify Mary with the mother goddess, some taught that Mary’s body never saw corruption, and she bodily ascended into heaven, and now the ‘queen of heaven’. It was not until this present century; however, the doctrine of the ‘assumption’ of Mary was officially proclaimed as a doctrine of Roman Catholic Church.
It was in 1951 that Pope Pius XII proclaimed that Mary’s body saw no corruption and was taken to heaven.
The words of St. Bernard sum up the Roman Catholic position: “On the third day after Mary’s death, when the apostles gathered around her tomb they found it empty. The sacred body had been carried up to the Celestial Paradise … the grave had no power over one who was immaculate … But it was not enough that Mary should be received into heaven. She was to be no ordinary citizen … she had a dignity beyond the reach even of the highest of the archangels. Mary was to be crowned Queen of Heaven by the eternal Father; she was to have a throne at her Sons right hand … Now day by day, hour by hour, she is praying for us, obtaining graces for us, preserving us from danger, shielding us from temptation, showering down blessings upon us.”
All these ideas about Mary are linked with the belief that she bodily ascended into heaven.
Beloved, The Bible says absolutely nothing about the assumption of Mary.
On the contrary John 3:13 says “No man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.” – Jesus Christ himself.
He is the one that is at God’s right hand, He is the one that showers down blessings upon us.
Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and men. 1Timothy2:5
Jesus said “I am The Way, The Truth and The Life.” John 14:6
Jesus said “No one comes to the Father except through Me”. John 14:6
“Believe in Lord Jesus Christ and be Saved – you and your household”. Acts 16:31
Jesus said “So be on your guard; I have told you everything ahead of time”. Mark 13:23
God Said “My people are destroyed from lack of knowledge”. Hosea 4:6
Read the Word Of God listen to the His sweet voice.
Jesus Said “My sheep hear my voice, I know them, They follow me, I give then eternal life and no one can snatch them from My hand”. John 10:27
This is the Fantastic Promise Jesus gave us.
Beloved,
Whatever your cross, whatever your pain,
There will always be sunshine after the rain.
Perhaps you may stumble, perhaps even fall,
But God’s always there to help through it all.
“Love and Peace be with you forever”
Amen!!
God Bless You
In His Mission
Bro. Alex Dhanvate
Sydney
What an awfully long response! And so full of errors.
Hi, Bro Alex…thank you for your very thorough post regarding prayer only to God Almighty! Your response is completely in line with what Scripture delineates. Any who disagree, has surely not studied their Bible. I was raised a Roman Catholic. But upon learning of the many discrepancies in doctrine between the Catholic church and the Word of God, I had no recourse but to leave it. I do believe it is a Christian church, but much of its doctrine is contrary to what the Word states. Your post will one day reach a heart who is genuinely seeking the Truth, a heart such as mine was 23 years ago. Jesus warned there would be scoffers in these end days; those who would despise the Truth and falsely criticize Christians for exposing the darkness of false doctrine with the Light of the Word. But keep strong in Him, dear brother. Carry on and one day you will have earned a crown!
God bless you, brother!
Linda 🙂
HI, Bro. Alex Dhanvate,
With all due respect, I must say that you have spent alot of time and effort writing about something that you don’t seem to understand.
I am a protestant in RCIA with the Catholic Church and NEVER has there been any teachings that I must worship Mary.
Prayer to saints is not the same as worship. You are offending quite a group, because prayer to saints is not limited in just the Catholic faith.
And correct me if I am wrong, even Jesus ask his friends to pray in the garden!?
Ally:)
Hi, Ally…yes, Jesus asked His friends to pray who were in the garden, but His friends were alive, not dead. Prayer is one form of worship and as the Bible tells us, we are to worship only God.
Take care, Linda 🙂
I COMPLETELY agree with HAPPY
I do not have a fancy theology degree, I am “just a mom”, but as a Catholic who works at a Protestant Church and I run into this all the time. It is a very mis-understood part of the Catholic church.
Catholics do NOT WORSHIP Mary!
Even the Protestants regularly practice intercessory prayer. This is nothing more than asking for intercessory prayer. Even the Hail Mary prayer itself ends with “Holy Mary Mother of God PRAY FOR US SINNERS…” Not take away our sins, only JESUS can do that. The Hail Mary prayer simply asks for Intercession on our behalf.
I also think that since JESUS was fully Human and full God, the argument stands to reason that HE has similar human tendancies. For example: to listen to HIS mother, because HIS FATHER GOD told HIM to do so. It is one of the commandments given in Exodus 20:12 & is repeated in Deuteronomy 5:16.
So really what is the harm in asking for those who have gone before us to pray for us? We ask our family, friends, & neighbors still here on earth to pray for us? Why not ask Mary or any of those who are already in Heaven to interceede on our behalf?
I used to be a catholic until I started to read the Bible .
As a catholic child I was taught to PRAY to Mary and the
other saints . This practise still goes on all over the world .
The bible clearly says not to talk to the dead : Deut . :18:10-12
So why would anyone pray to Mary ? I would’nt ask Moses
or Elija to do anything for me and I would’nt pray to my dear
departed Mom . In John 2:4 was Jesus trying to tell us
something? When he said “WOMAN , what have I to do with thee ? Never as far as I can remember did I called my mother “Woman” to her face . Also in Matt. 12:48 we
see where Jesus asks “Who is my Mother ,who is my brother ? This does’nt sound like he was addressing
“The Queen of Heaven”. I believe “Marion Worship” is an
“abomination ” which has led to other “abominations” such
as the shrine they have in Mexico city dedicated to “The
patron saint of drug smugglers” and other abominations .
WG: I used to be a catholic until I started to read the Bible .
As a catholic child I was taught to PRAY to Mary and the
other saints . This practise still goes on all over the world .
The bible clearly says not to talk to the dead : Deut . :18:10-12
So why would anyone pray to Mary ? I would’nt ask Moses or Elija to do anything for me and I would’nt pray to my dear departed Mom .
In John 2:4 was Jesus trying to tell us
something? When he said “WOMAN , what have I to do with thee ? Never as far as I can remember did I called my mother “Woman” to her face .
Also in Matt. 12:48 we
see where Jesus asks “Who is my Mother ,who is my brother ? This does’nt sound like he was addressing
“The Queen of Heaven”.
I believe “Marion Worship” is an
“abomination ”
which has led to other “abominations” such
as the shrine they have in Mexico city dedicated to “The
patron saint of drug smugglers” and other abominations
I grew up thinking that Catholics pray to Mary and this discussion has really helped me see things differently…First of all,BFHU really knows scripture and is seeking to do the will of the Father…I recently met a sister in the Lord who’s been part of the Catholic church from birth and I’ve seen her pray…I’m convinced beyond any doubt she’s got a personal relationship with the Father through His son and The Holy Spirit…We all are sinners,all denominations have some wrong teachings…..we do have to be careful though of judging one another as God never gave us the authority to do so….His servants,He will judge…We just have to focus on loving one another,in spite of our “theologies” ,study the scriptures to show ourselves approved to the Father and be ready for the return of The Son..
Shalom and blessings,
Anka
William Gonzalez,
First of all I believe BFHU did an outstanding job answering your questions/statements.
I agree with her that I have to wonder about your teachings as a child.
“I used to be a catholic until I started to read the Bible .”
Why did you not read the bible before? That is not taught by the Church. Again, like I said I am protestant in the middle of Catholic teachings and I know of NO ONE who prays to Mary with the belief that she will answer your prayers NOR has that been taught to me in any shape or form. I visit many blogs, websites and forums and that is not a teaching upheld by anyone I have encountered nor anyone I know personally.
Let me remind you also, last time I checked Mary, the Saints, and hopefully your Mom(if she has passed on) are all still very much alive thanks to the Love and sacrifice of our Lord Jesus. I don’t understand how asking for intercessory prayer from any or all would ever be wrong.
God Bless,
Ally 🙂
Why would you and how can you expect persons who have died and passed from this life and who are not and never will be divine to be able to hear and discern multitudes of prayer requests.simultaneously….just not reasonable , and not needed by our Lord…..you go out on a very big limb of gross assumption without any authentic or verifiable effect…..the prayer may be answered in spite of the misguided method….this is a grace …..intercessory prayer by those still here is effectual because ….they actually hear , discern and offer prayer…. This is very sure …no assumption needed…and they operate and cooperate with the Spirit of Truth ….be very careful what you think is true…or would like to think is true….go with what you know for certain is true…..,…for me I don’t know if human beings in heaven have been endowed with divine abilities…..I don’t know that…you don’t know that…..you cannot say that…….”you may worship and you may hold sacred things you do not know”…….the Father of lies comes to deceive the elect…..however he can ….even as to laugh at our misguided attempts to conduct spiritual business……Careful!
Dear Jim,
The Saints in Heaven have not been endowed with divine abilities.They are alive in Christ. And it is only through the power of God that they would be able to hear our prayers.
You said, “just not reasonable , .you go out on a very big limb of gross assumption without any authentic or verifiable effect”
Well, actually our prayers to Saints get answers. That is why it is still practiced after all these years.Not every prayer of course. But without a lot of positive reinforcement prayer to Saints would have dropped by the wayside.
You say, “go with what you know for certain is true” But that is NOT Faith!
As a Catholic convert I can assure you that you are not alone among Protestants. Protestants only have a very narrow amount of faith. And what they do possess is wonderful but the fact is the Catholics have a lot more faith, a much broader and deeper faith in God and what He is able to do and does in fact do. Protestants, have doubt, not faith regarding all of these things, such as the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. Grace and absolution in the Sacrament of confession. Forgiveness of sin and grace through baptism and many other things. Protestants have doubt. Catholics have Faith.
Mary cannot hear your prayers. She’s dead. Bowing your head to an idol of her will not make her hear you any better either.
Asking a living person to pray for you is different, they can hear you.
Remember the bible talks of the 3 that bear record in Heaven. Mary isn’t one of them.(read john 5:7)
Catholics will miss out on the pearly gates with their sprinkling water baptisms, idol worship, praying to and for the dead, thinking any human is in heaven with God. Jesus was in the flesh but he was God, and through him you are saved.
You guys can’t even baptize the correct way, its in the name of Jesus. Which is the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.(Acts 2:38)
You guys completely ignore these facts mentioned in the Acts of the apostles.
Mary wasn’t sin free, she was just a vassal. Jesus was sin free. Nothing more nothing less.
Also you folks don’t even realize that your Vatican sits on the throne of seven hills(Rome), the place in revelations that says the Beast will sit.
How sad, sad in deed.
I might be a late posting this, but to anyone who happens to read this remember this… Read the bible on your own, and ask God for the understanding in it.
Dear TryHarder,
Mary is not dead.
Is your God unable to allow Mary to hear our requests for prayer?
We don’t think Mary is part of the Trinity.
Where does Scripture say sprinkling or pouring water for baptism is outlawed? This is merely a Baptist Tradition of men.
From earliest days of the Church baptism was poured or sprinkled heavily (It must be enough to run across the skin we don’t “sprinkle”) Was a convert too sick to go to a deep body of water supposed to be hauled off on a several days journey to a substantial body of water in order to be baptized? Nothing in Scripture commands full immersion.
We do not worship idols. Please read this post of mine–>Tradition of Men: Catholics worship Idols.
Wow! You don’t think any human is in heaven with God? What church do you go to?
Uhmmmmmm Jesus said:
Did you think Jesus made a mistake here? We just follow what He said. And you think we are going to hell b/c of it?
Where does it say in Acts that Mary was a sinner? That is laughably not true that the Vatican sits on the seven hills of Rome. It is only on one hill.
Let me ask you a question. Where does Scripture tell us that all of Christian doctrine must come ONLY from Scripture?
Good to hear back from you.
“Did you think Jesus made a mistake here? We just follow what He said. And you think we are going to hell b/c of it?”
So did the apostles get it wrong when in Acts it said
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
Jesus Christ is the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.(those are titles)
The apostles of Christ understood this.(You guys didn’t)
Are you saying that the ones who knew Jesus got it wrong? I’ll take my chances with those in the bible rather than man that walk the earth.
Mary is dead, Her Flesh is dead at least. Her spirit is not in Heaven. Yes God/Jesus could allow her to hear your prayers but he’s against necromancy. She waits like many others to be resurrected (Revalations 6:9-11). Many are waiting to be with Jesus.
God is capable of all things but he will not go against his own Word.
read 1 Timothy 2:5/John 14:6 , You don’t need Mary you need Jesus
Only 3 bear record in heaven.
Baptism-
Read Romans 6:3-4
It must be a full submersion.
“Let me ask you a question. Where does Scripture tell us that all of Christian doctrine must come ONLY from Scripture?”
It should because it is the word of God, that’s why it’s here for us to read.
“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”
Also read
1 John 5:13
When you let men create there own interpretations/doctrines you get things like
Hmm Christmas(Pagan holiday) read (Jeremiah 10:2-5).
Inquisitions and other things such as that.
The fact the previous Pope stepped down. How is a Man of God going to just quit on Jesus like that? If Jesus was his Rock he would not have stepped down.(yes I understand no one’s perfect but to be proclaimed the Vicar of Christ and then quit, wheres the faith in that?)
Where does Scripture say that Jesus Christ is the name of the Trinity? Prove with Scriptures that the Apostles believed what you assert.
Historically baptism has been done in the Name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit. That is how Christians have done it from the beginning. The verse you quote contradicts the verse I quoted. I will go with how the first apostles baptized not Protestant Bible interpreters 2000 years later.
How do you know Mary is not in Heaven? Asking for intercessory prayer is not necromancy. I agree necromancy is condemned because it is divination. Divination is not the same as prayer requests.
Our souls do not die. Only our bodies die. Then comes judgement where each soul is assigned a final destination of Heaven or Hell. The resurrection of our bodies awaits the end time. But Mary was assumed into Heaven by the power of her Son when her earthly life was finished. So was Elijah’s body taken to Heaven and Enoch’s.
You offered not proof regarding full submersion for baptism. You are simply restating a Protestant Tradition of Men.
Of course Scripture is powerful but it nowhere says that ONLY Scripture can be trusted for Christian truth.
Catholic Doctrine and interpretation of Scripture has been consistent since the first century. Protestant interpretation is all over the map and each man can make it up as he goes. There is no final authoritative interpretation of scripture in the Protestant world.
You are grasping at straws by criticizing Pope Benedict. He has not quit on Jesus. He is still very much devoted to Our Lord. His health was making it increasingly difficult to perform the duties of Leading Christ’s Church. He merely retired from his job. Jesus is his Rock and you are lacking in charity but full of judgement.
You ignored what I said about the Christmas tree.(typical catholic)
Peter was baptizing in the Name of Jesus Christ, after hearing Jesus say baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. If he contradicted what Jesus said then the bible is a lie(it’s not).
I don’t think the bible would lie.
He understood what Jesus meant. Catholics do not. Jesus(Yeshua?) is his name. That’s why you Baptize in his name.
He even said I come in my fathers name.(Jesus)
“Catholic Doctrine and interpretation of Scripture has been consistent since the first century.”
This isn’t even true the Catholics have been changing the rules as they go along for the longest.(Purgatory)
Historically Catholics killed in the name of God, and thought they were right. See what I mean. Doesn’t mean its right. They changed to sprinkling, added christmas, and a bunch of other things as well.
Finally
The Pope standing down is like a man giving up on his family.
This is like Jesus not getting on the cross.(though I don’t regard the pope as the Vicar of Christ, catholics praise the man)
Also Mary wasn’t sin free
Read
Romans 3:23
Romans 5:12
It didn’t say with Mary being the only exception.
Jesus was sin free, that is because he was God in the flesh.
Read
1 Timothy 2:5
You don’t need a Pope, a “Father”, or Mary. You need to pray to Jesus directly. He has no favorites
Read
Romans 2:11
We don’t need to ask Mary to pray for use. We are capable to pray to God/Jesus ourselves.
read
John 14:13-14
Also about making your own doctrines
“Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.”
also Colossians 2:8
Matthew 6:7 and 15:8-9
Also your hail mary’s, Jesus said not to have vain repetitions. That is certainly what it is. Doing 50 in one sitting.
“But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.”
This is from the bible, thus proving that man’s doctrines shouldn’t be added to Gods. You may think you worship Jesus, but its in vain.
Read
Mark 7:7-9
Catholics have been making up the rules as they go. The Christmas tree is a huge example of this. Mary Worship included and yes it is worship. You have idols/pictures of her, the pope bows to statues of her. She simply gave birth to Christ, nothing more than a vassal, but Catholic’s give her as much, if not more, praise than Jesus.(when the bible gives all the praise to JESUS)
Dear TryHarder,
Thanks for your opinion.
Can’t change the word of God. It’s a pleasure to educate. So what’s your opinion on Christmas now?
Jesus is against people adding their own doctrines. Mary worship is a man made doctrine.
Dear Try Harder
We do NOT worship Mary. That is a Protestant Tradition of men. We honor her as the Mother of God.
Where in Scripture does it forbid Christmas Trees?
When you say we can’t change the Word of God I agree 100%. But, it has to be read and interpreted. You seem to be confusing your interpretation of the Word of God with the written Word of God. They are not the same thing unless you believe you are able to interpret infallibly.
@bfhu – Mary is NOT the mother of God; she is the mother of Jesus.
bfhu said: “But Mary was assumed into Heaven by the power of her Son when her earthly life was finished. So was Elijah’s body taken to Heaven and Enoch’s.”
Scripture support please for Mary’s assumption…
GLORY to God, I am born-again, I have access to Him through His Son Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit indwelling me (that happened the moment I accepted Jesus Christ), has, and is, transforming my wicked heart, into a heart for Christ. It’s about what Jesus Christ did for me (and for all mankind) on the Cross. He said, “It is finished”. That means He did it all. That means that all you have to do is accept, in faith, that He did it all. He died for our sins, so that we would not have to suffer the wrath of Father God. JESUS intercedes for us. When we mess up, He goes to the Father, for us. We all DO deserve God’s wrath but all praise and Glory to God, we have Jesus to intercede for us, when we ask Him to.
Say YES to JESUS. You don’t have to “know it all” before you say, YES JESUS, I need you! It’s you and God…You admit you’re a sinner, you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, you confess Jesus Christ. You trust Him. Then let Him do the transforming work. He will. He will show you sin that needs to be removed from your life. You repent, I’m sorry God, please forgive me. Give me strength God. Show me the peace and joy that can only be found in you. You leave the “world” behind, and live for Christ. Don’t wait.
Put your wife, your husband, your children, your job, your religion, ON THE ALTER! Do something for the LORD TODAY.
2Sam22:33 God is my strength and power: and He maketh my way perfect.
JOHN 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man (NO MAN) cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Dear Jackie,
I am Catholic. I do not believe in Sola Scriptura because it is not even in Scripture. It is a tradition started a mere 500 years ago my Martin Luther. Our belief in Mary’s assumption is historical not scriptural. However there is nothing contrary to Scripture in the doctrine since the assumption of Enoch and Elijah are recounted in Scripture.
I am sure you realize there is much historical fact that is not contained in Scripture. These historical facts are not therefore to be rejected. There is no basis for the rejection of historical facts. I don’t get what the problem is with Mary’s assumption.
GOD tells us about Enoch and Elijah.
The ‘problem’ with “Mary’s assumption” is that you all preach it as if it were gospel truth (no pun intended 🙂 instead of the wishful-thinking story-telling it really is — and I don’t understand WHY anyone would WANT to elevate Mary to anything other than the mother of Jesus….we HAVE HER SON! We have a SAVIOR IN JESUS! THAT is enough for me. Amen.). Her “assumption” is not truth. IF she were, and IF God wanted us to know that she was, HE would have left it in His Word for us. She was not; she was a sinner just like the rest of us. He DOES tell us that in Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. It does not say, all except for Mary, it says ALL. The ONLY sinless person to walk this earth was Jesus Christ himself. God’s Word is not a fill-in-the-blank book. Everything we all need to know is in His Word.
1Cor2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
If you are not born-again, you cannot possibly discern to a point of understanding.
Dear Jackie,
We do not elevate Mary; we simply state the facts. Because of the Protestant traditions, you are not taught these facts and therefore assume we must be artificially elevating Mary because of some perverse motive. That is not the case.
Calling Mary the Mother of God is a simple statement of fact. Mary is the Mother of Jesus. Jesus is God. Therefore Mary is the mother of God. Yes, Mary only gave the God-man, Jesus, her flesh. This God took on human flesh through Mary. Mary gave birth to a baby with two natures–human and divine.
The reason we say Mary is the mother of God and we do not say Mary is the mother of God-man, is historical. In the first century or so most Christian heresies arose regarding the nature of Jesus. They either rejected his humanity or his divinity. The use of Mary is the mother of God was coined to express authentic truth about Jesus in a very succinct way. He was born of a woman, Mary. Therefore, He was truly human. But, at the same time He was divine. Therefore, Mary actually gave birth to God, hypostatically united with a human nature.
We do not in any way mean by this phrase that Mary created God. No. Jesus is eternal in the Trinity.
bfhu, RE: Mary and how RCC refers to her as mother of God. I guess it really doesn’t matter HOW RCC came to that conclusion, because God is GOD. Jesus is God’s begotten Son. Mary is the mother of Jesus.
Jesus came to give life. John 10:10 I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. AMEN.
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
bfhu—Was it you who was previously protestant? If yes, were you born-again during that time?
Yes. As a Protestant first I was Reformed, then as a young adult I went to Calvary Chapel, as a young mother I went to a Baptist Church in the South, and then I was a memeber of an Evangelical Free Church up until my conversion to the Catholic Church.
I absolutely was a born again Christian.
Amen, sister, bfhu. If by born again, you mean you made a decision for Christ at that time (not by works but by faith), then I will see you in heaven one day — praise the Lord — hopefully by rapture, I pray sooner than later.
“You seem to be confusing your interpretation of the Word of God with the written Word of God”
Are you sure its not the other way around?
Not once does the bible say pray to or for the dead. Nor does it say pray to Mary. Mary isn’t the true Mother of God, this is where people seem to get it confused. God has existed since the beginning. Yes she was a mother figure to him as he walked the earth.
Purgatory, Holy Water, Rosary, and it goes on and on.
These aren’t from the Word of God, but from Men.
“Where in Scripture does it forbid Christmas Trees?”
Hmm you seem to have a hard time reading the bible so i’ll post what it says.
Mark 7:7-9
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
Jeremiah 10:2-5
2 Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.
In Jeremaih it describes the Christmas(Pagan) tree, as the way of the heathen, Mark says that those who worship in vain have rejected the commandment of good so they could keep their old traditions. When you read the bible you have to make connections.(like how the Old Testament predicts the coming of Christ)
It seems this dialogue is contentious and there will be no convincing in either direction…the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Unity and warring and factions is the work of well you know who, ! So having made the points according to the Scripture, I would let the Spirit of Truth work in the heart of the hearer…and leave the disputes .. …and you simply cant go wrong with ” one mediator ” ….there will always be those who take some kind of comfort in these traditions of men…with good intentions I suppose …there is the Bread of Life and then there is this tooo much dessert as I like to put it
Thank You Jesus for saving me.
I guess it all boils down to weather we are saved by God’s grace or not.
Only God is God. Only God is Omnipotent = having unlimited power; able to do anything, on any given time and space.
Mary can’t hear you. When one dies, a person doesn’t become a god or get god-like powers. No passages needed. Mary don’t have God powers to understand your problems and situation. She just isn’t God.
That’s why God is God. If you know what God means, you will understand that there is only One God. No one else can do what God does. period.
What garbled logic! This is pretty low theology. You just limit what God can and cannot do in his omnipotence. You must also be thinking that God is a monolithic, narcissistic and tyrannical ruler in heaven. I say that if it pleases God to empower the saints in heaven with the elevated ability to hear the petition of prayers from earth (See Revelation 5), what’s that to you mortals? Christ has had even demonstrated that one can possess “superhuman” ability with a resurrected-body property like walking through walls (Jn 20:19). And so that’s why “God is God,” and you (lalainegillustrations) are mere flesh and blood who doesn’t get to pretend to know all the higher things from this side of the veil.
Outstanding read, I just passed this onto a friend who was doing a little investigation on that. And he really bought me lunch because I discovered it for him smile So let me rephrase that: Thanks for lunch!