The First Split in the Catholic Church

BFH: “The Church that Jesus founded 2000 years ago is the Catholic Church. All of the Protestant denominations broke away; first from the Catholic Church and then from other Protestant groups.”

Z: I agree that what we now call the Roman Catholic Chruch is -part- of the Church that Christ founded. However, the RCC didn’t become the RCC until the Great Schism. It is here that the RCC split from the Church and went one way, while the rest of the Church became known as the Orthodox Church and continued forward. 500 years later we have the Reformation and another group splitting from Roman Catholicism to become known as the Protestants.

SS: Zacharias it is difficult to accept that the Great Schism of the Greek Church was the foundation of a split that defines Rome as the RCC

Z: When then would you say the Roman Catholic Church became the ‘Roman Catholic Church” then? I don’t believe it was specifically referred to as that before the Great Schism (which wasn’t actually the defining time that the people recognized the schism of course).

BFH: The Roman Catholic Church was called the Catholic Church in the first century b/c we have

Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop or by one whom he ordains. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church(Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 Ignatius of Antioch; 110 A.D. ).

The adjective catholic is not introduced as if it were a brand new idea but as if taken for granted that all will understand what he is talking about. Therefore, it would seem to predate even this early writing.

I have read that Roman was attached to Catholic Church at the time of the reformation in an attempt to create contempt for that foreign church in Rome. This helped to bolster the independent, local and national Protestant “churches”.

Of course an Orthodox would want to see that the Catholic Church split off from the True Church but we see it as otherwise, since the Eastern church split off from the Bishop of Rome the ancient see of Peter and the universally acknowledged seat of final authority in the Church.

Orthodox Churches, btw I believe are considered churches rather than ecclesial communities b/c they retain valid orders and a valid Eucharist.

Z: I think we’re using the same word in two different contexts… before the Great Schism, the East and the West were both the “Catholic” church, in that it was the Universal Church.

6 Responses

  1. How come the catholic church is not involved in miracles, signs and wonders??? I mean if the catholic church is the one church ( and I have been raised catholic) Why do they not carry out the examples that the apostles left behind? Why do I hear in church “DONT READ THE BIBLE I can only tell you” what is that???? Why are the readings the always the same messages? The “church” in my eyes is failing we do nothing for others, where are the catholic :”revivals” and bible studies? I was delivered from demons but not by a catholic priest. Why do babies get baptised???? Everything is habitual…and no true feelings…Im sorry to say somewhere down the road I got confused.. Look at the Revival in florida..REAL ppl are being healed and RAISED from the dead..Its not a scam Ive seen it myself..Look into it..because im getting confused and im stuck..and another thing how can we trust something that is so Vague? I mean take the bible for instance the catholic bible has other books in it that other bibles dont..Then they tell me that revelations is a lie..well Ive seen some things and felt something things and i feel sorry for all who believe this…Jesus is coming soon..many so called “strong” christians will be made a fool…many ppls blood shall spill..and the world will be no more of what we know…I mean good grief half the book is missing anyway..and the vatican hides stuff from us..and certain records are held like the pope who was running when the holocaust happened his a locked up and not allowed to be opened..I have a big problem..I dont think Jesus kept secrets so i disagree with the church

  2. You seem to have a lot of misconceptions about the Catholic Church. There are miracles in the Catholic Church and incorrupt bodies of saints which is certainly a sign and a wonder. There is absolutely nothing vague about the the beliefs of the Catholic Church. You can read all about it in our Catechism. The Pope during WWII saved more people than any other church or organization. But there are a lot of lies out there about the Church. Which you would expect from the Father of Lies.

  3. Wow Jess,

    Sounds like you’ve absorbed a lot of bogus info out there.


    Don’t know who is telling you not to read the Bible, but the Catholic Church doesn’t say that.

    Over a three year period, pretty much the entire bible (minus the military stats, etc) is read in the readings. Every day there is a different set of readings consisting of one OT reading, a psalm, & a gospel reading every week, with an additional reading from the NT every Sunday.

    The fact is that any repetitiveness is because the Bible is read repeatedly in the mass.

    Why do babies get baptized? Well, I’m not sure of the reasons some protestant denominations do it (like presbyterians, etc.), but Catholics baptize infants because of what the Bible teaches us about what original sin IS, & what Baptism does.

    When we are born in the flesh, we are IN Adam. In baptism, we are born AGAIN of water & the Spirit, & become IN Christ. In baptism we are forgiven our sins (original sin only in the case of babies, since they are not capable of having committed any personal sins.)

    I’ve never heard of anyone being “raised from the dead” in modern times, (other than in the movies) but if you’ve seen it, OK.

    The Catholic bible has other books in it that other bibles don’t because 1,000 years after the canon of the Bible was settled, Martin Luther took 7 out of the Old Testament.

    Who told you that “revelations is a lie”?

    Half of WHAT book is “missing anyway”?

    What is the Vatican “hiding from us”?

    I think you might be better served by changing your spiritual advisor, or at least whoever is giving you such inaccurate information.

    God bless.


  4. I thought the Catholic Church was started in the 4th or 5th century?

    Also, were the first followers of Jesus called Gnostic Christians with a completely different look at Christianity then what the Catholic view is?
    The one thing i have never understood in Christianity is infant baptizing? It was a Pagan tradition and was first implemented into Christianity by the first Roman Catholics aka ex pagans.

    More than enough evidence has shown that Religious Pagan traditions are much alike Christian traditions, just with different dates and names. Anybody know why this is?

    As a Protestant, i wonder why our Holy Bible was written so many times and in some cases differ from one another greatly. Who is right and who is wrong, and who is to say which is right and what is wrong? I beleive Only GOD can judge. So how do i know that i am not being deceived by man? The reason i say deceived by man is because we have some very different views in different bibles.

    How do i know Jesus’s words were not changed and or our view of him being the Son of GOD? There is much evidence that the Gnostics never worshipped him in the way we do today.

    Am i just reading a bunch of phony bologny, or do other Christians ever research and think about these things too?

  5. Please see my reply here--Gnostics

  6. the catholic church is based on 50% Bible and 50% tradition. For some reason they care about their stupid traditions and rituals rather than listen to the Bible which is the word of GOD unlike the traditions. Why do they practice things that are outside the Bible?? Thats why catholics themselves catholics and not Christians because they are not the followers of Christ but followers of Mary and Peter. The only person we worship is Jesus… we don’t worship Mary or Peter, they are sinners like me and you because every human is a sinner.

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