I Was Taught to Pray to Mary as a Catholic Child



WG: I used to be a catholic until I started to read the Bible .

BFHU: Do you know how you came to have a Bible? The Catholic Church. Even Martin Luther admitted this.

As a catholic child I was taught to PRAY to Mary and the
other saints . This practise still goes on all over the world .

BFHU: I am not sure how well catechized your family and teachers were but the phrase, “pray to Mary” does not express Catholic theology. It is a way for folks to express the truth of asking Mary and the Saints to PRAY FOR US TO GOD as opposed to asking Mary and the Saints to ANSWER our prayers by their own power.. This difference is easy to discern when we look at OFFICIAL prayers of the Church.

The Hail Mary—>…pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death…
The Confieteor–>…pray for us to the Lord our God…”

So the reality of Church teaching is that we ask Mary and the Saints to PRAY FOR US. We do not pray to them as we do to divinity, theologically, even though it might feel and sound very much the same. The fault lies in what you were taught not in Church teaching.

The bible clearly says not to talk to the dead : Deut . :18:10-12

BFHU:This prohibition is against a form of divination not against asking them to pray for us. You must read it in context. And this is STILL PROHIBITED. But requesting intercessory prayer of those in Heaven is not prohibited anywhere in Sacred Scripture. Please see this post–NECROMANCY

So why would anyone pray to Mary ? I would’nt ask Moses or Elija to do anything for me and I would’nt pray to my dear departed Mom .

You can ask them to pray for you but they have no power to answer your requests. Only God can do that. We pray to the Saints because, “the prayers of a righteous man has much power in its effect.” James 5:16

In John 2:4 was Jesus trying to tell us
something? When he said “WOMAN , what have I to do with thee ? Never as far as I can remember did I called my mother “Woman” to her face .

BFHU: Unhinged from the ancient teachings of the Church and Jewish culture; reading only the Bible steeped in our own culture it is easy to read this passage as you have interpreted it. However, WOMAN is meant to hearken back to the first WOMAN– EVE the one who fell as contrasted to Mary the WOMAN who did not. It also forshadows St. John’s vision when a Woman clothed with the sun is seen…in Revelation.

Also in Matt. 12:48 we
see where Jesus asks “Who is my Mother ,who is my brother ? This does’nt sound like he was addressing
“The Queen of Heaven”.

BFHU: Your interpretation is easy to come by but it carries with it unintended consequences. I too heard this as a Protestant. But , the way you are interpreting these two verses implies that Jesus broke the commandment to “Honor your father and your mother…” Which we both know He never did. (break the commandment, that is)

This saying of Jesus’ does not exclude Mary from those who obey God but rather he was refocusing the people on obedience to God and seeking Heaven rather than seeking association with a mere human no matter how holy.

I believe “Marion Worship” is an
“abomination ”

BFHU: It certainly is heretical.
THE CATHOLIC CHURCH DOES NOT TEACH US TO WORSHIP MARY.

which has led to other “abominations” such
as the shrine they have in Mexico city dedicated to “The
patron saint of drug smugglers” and other abominations

If you think this is sanctioned by the Catholic Church I invite you to prove it. Anyone can say and do all sorts of things that might sound Catholic. But I am very sure the Church does not encourage or promote this idea. People sin. Catholics sin. Protestants sin. Their failure does NOT tarnish the TRUTH of CATHOLIC TEACHING.

Advertisements

19 Responses

  1. Hi BFHU I made a mistake and pressed the wrong button and
    send you an unfinished rebuttal to your responce to my
    “I was taught to pray to Mary as a Catholic child” lets try it again. Whether your praying to Mary and the saints or thru
    Mary and the saints there is still no biblical basis for it .
    1 Timothy 2 : 5 says “For there is one God and one mediator
    between God and men the man Jesus Christ .The Bible
    nowhere describes anyone in Heaven praying for anyone
    on earth . The Bible nowhere mentions anyone asking for
    someone in Heaven to pray for them . The Bible absolutely
    gives no indication that Mary or the saints can hear our
    prayers . How could they hear the prayers of millions of
    people , they are not omniscient , even glorified in Heaven
    they are still finite beings with limitations ! So since Jesus
    is the ONLY mediator according to 1Timothy 2:5 that indicates that Mary and the saints cannot be mediatoers .
    Where I said I believe Marion worship is an abomination
    and you wrote the Catholic church does not believe in
    Marion worship . I think you better research the “Lady of
    Fatima . In Matt. 6 :7 it warns about “repetative prayer”.
    Where I said that Marion worship has led to other abominations like the shrine in Mexico City dedicated to
    drug smugglers . The Catholic church may not have sanctioned it but you see how Marion worship can
    influence these other abominations and lead to them .
    Oh and your first comment about how I came to have
    a bible because of the Catholic church . Yes BFHU
    God can use something as Heretical as the Catholic
    church and make some good use out of it .

  2. BFHU: Do you know how you came to have a Bible? The Catholic Church. Even Martin Luther admitted this.

    The LXX was Written in 3BC by Jewish scholars
    50 years before the Church Rome
    and 300 Years Before the Roman Catholic Church

    get your Facts Staight

  3. The Bible comes from the “People of the Book”
    Jews , Jesus was a Jew, Paul was Jew, Peter was a Jew, John was a Jew , There is only one New Testiment Author that was a gential that was Luke.
    ALL out of the 66 books, 64 were written by Hebrew and Jewish Scribes. Most of the N.T. in Greek and Aramaic.
    Jews wanted to sperate themselfs from the Greko-Roman Cultrue. Jews used Hebrew/Aramaic Targum manuscripts later compiled by the Masoretes; and authoritative Aramaic translations, such as those of Onkelos and Rabbi Yonathan ben Uziel.

    Why do you think Jews hated Rome so bad , Rome tried to Rominized everthing.
    Once the Vulgate was Complete(Jerome) the Roman Catholic Church disregrated the Orginal transpcrips as non-Athentic
    And said the the Latin was the true Laungauge of God and saying that Hebrew and all earlyer laungauges were crude and childest forms. These words are also in the Majesteriam manauscripts which can find online.

    We have a Bible Because God Chose the people of Israel to be a blessing to the world! Fact and thats in the Bible itself.

  4. The Old Testament came to us from the Jews. The Catholic Church accepted the LXX as it was and added the New Testament books to it, as I said, about 400 AD, officially. That is why we have 7 books in our Bible that are missing from Protestant Bibles. Martin Luther took them out. over a thousand years later. The Jews took the same 7 books out about 100 AD.

  5. I just observed from the post that the MAIN POINT regarding this post is about the purported ”Marion worship’, and not about the Bible’s history (as from the responses).

    As for Marion worship, I agree that Marion worship (and also worship for any man, earthly life, or even angels (See Rev 22:8-9)) is abominable. It is even made clear in one of the commandments (See Exodus 20:2-3).

    Just check the title of one of “the OFFICIAL prayers of the Church” – HAIL Mary. It made me smile. Will you say that “hailing” is NOT the same as “worshipping”?

    So assuming that you really are not worshiping Mary, let’s go to “Do we need to ask Mary or the saints to pray for us?”.

    I’ll just summarize my points as follows:

    1. The Bible says that it is only Jesus who can bridge the gap between us and God. (1 Timothy 2:5) So, it is clear then that Mary nor any other saints is ‘good’ enough to intercede between us and God. Only God is good enough for that. (Matthew 19:17; Mark 10:18)

    2. It is true that the prayer of an righteous person is powerful. (James 5:16).
    Now the question is “What makes a person righteous?”
    The Bible says that we are already righteous by God ‘s grace. (Romans 1:17; 3:21-25; 4:1-6; 5:17)

    Simply stated, all our prayers are acceptable and powerful already if we pray through Jesus (not by any other intercessor), for we are saved by GRACE through faith.

    May God bless us all THROUGH Christ Jesus. Amen.

    • Your 1. Statement must mean then your belief is to never ask anyone to pray for you? I think most churches have prayer chains.

      🙂

      • happy,

        asking living believers to pray about something is completely different than praying to dead people (saint or not) about something

  6. Maria; Just check the title of one of “the OFFICIAL prayers of the Church” – HAIL Mary. It made me smile. Will you say that “hailing” is NOT the same as “worshipping”?

    BFHU: The word hail simply means greetings. Hailing is absolutely not the same as worshiping. In the USA we play the song Hail to the Chief for the Pres. of the US. Do you think Americans therefore worship the President?
    Maria: So assuming that you really are not worshiping Mary, let’s go to “Do we need to ask Mary or the saints to pray for us?”

    BFHU:
    No. It is NOT mandatory.

    Maria:
    The Bible says that it is only Jesus who can bridge the gap between us and God. (1 Timothy 2:5) So, it is clear then that Mary nor any other saints is ‘good’ enough to intercede between us and God. Only God is good enough for that. (Matthew 19:17; Mark 10:18)

    BFHU:

    James 5:16 pray for one another so that you may be healed The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.

    So you reject this Scripture along with Martin Luther? Intercessory prayer IS a form of mediation.

    Maria: It is true that the prayer of an righteous person is powerful.
    Now the question is “What makes a person righteous?

    BFHU: Mary was righteous. Even more so than Abraham.

  7. “You never think of Mary
    without Mary thinking of God
    on your behalf.
    Neither do you ever praise and honor God
    without Mary praising and honoring God
    in union with you.”

    St. Louis Grignion de Montfort
    ..from AskACatholic.com

    I saw this and thought is is a neat quote.
    Blessings
    Ally

    • Happy,
      That is beautiful. I have never heard that before. Words cannot express how it warms my heart for our Blessed Mother.

  8. Adam, on May 29th, 2009 at 10:36 am Said: Edit Comment

    BFHU, the point is that praying to the dead (saint or not) is forbidden in scripture. Stop twisting James 5:16 to make your point. That passage based on its context is clearly speaking of praying for each other (we being alive) and not praying to a dead person to pray for something.

    >>BFHU: It certainly is heretical.
    >>THE CATHOLIC CHURCH DOES NOT TEACH US TO >>WORSHIP MARY.
    Praying to (not for) someone is worshipping them! Your actions are ascribing power to that person which they do not posses and that only God possesses. The Bible forbids not only prayer for the dead but also to the dead (regardless if they were saints or not)

    Speaking of worshipping Mary, what about worshipping the Pope? How many Catholics worship the pope and he allows it. He’s referred to by many different names: His Holiness, Holy See, Prince Of Peace, etc, and people bow down to him with his approval. If that isn’t worshipping him then I don’t know what is.

    When the pagans tried to worship Paul the Apostle in Acts, he quickly rebuked them and told them that he was a mere man like they were. Yet I don’t see the pope showing any disapproval when they worship him.

  9. Adam,
    Where does scripture actually say that “praying to the dead is forbidden“? Asking a dead person for direction is DIVINATION! This is what is condemned in the Deut. 18. Divination is NOT in any way comparable to the request for intercessory prayer for those who are ALIVE in CHRIST.

    I have not twisted James 5:16

    16Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.

    My interpretation is different than yours . That is all. We, unlike Protestants do not view those who have died in the flesh to be dead and gone but ALIVE IN CHRIST.

    Praying to someone is NOT worshiping them. It only seems like it is b/c you have only been taught to pray to God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Therefore, in your mind and in your experience all of your prayer is directed to deity. But we speak to our fellow Christians in Heaven through prayer and we know the difference between asking them for intercessory prayer and worship of deity. It is extremely uncharitable for Protestants to jump to the conclusion that a Catholic praying tin front of a picture or statue of Mary is worshiping her. It only appears so to them b/c they have never experienced the difference between prayer and worship. To them it is all one and the same.

    Where does the Bible forbid prayers for the dead? In the Greek Old Testament, from which Jesus quoted and the Apostles received from the Jewish people, there is a commendation of prayers for the dead in:

    II Maccabees 12: 42 Turning to supplication, they prayed that the sinful deed might be fully blotted out. The noble Judas warned the soldiers to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen.
    43 He then took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice. In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view;
    44for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death.
    45But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought.
    46 Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin.

    We do not worship the pope. We honor him. Bowing down is not exclusively a sign of worship. It can be. But it depends upon what is in the heart. Did President Obama worship the Arab king last month when he bowed to him? Does bowing or kneeling before the Queen of England make all who do the worshipers of the Queen? They even used to address dignitaries as “Your worship” but it was merely a sign of deep respect not actual WORSHIP as in that reserved for GOD..

    Paul was right to forbid them to worship him. But the pope KNOWS we do not worship him but are merely showing deep respect for the representative of Jesus Christ on Earth in time.

    Please believe me when I say I am not making any of this up. I used to view the Catholic Church exactly like you do. We and many, many Protestants are taught things about the Catholic Church that are unfounded lies, half-truths, and assumptions based on nothing but opinion. These have been passed down from one generation to the next for 500 years. Some are almost exact quotes of Martin Luther’s caulmny.

    I would recommend my post Necromancy and Prayers to the Saints.

  10. I think above all these things mentioned, the Catholic theology on Mary is gravely mistaken and doesn’t need much arguing. There is no Scriptual support for her sinless nature, perpetual virginity, or her being a Queen of any sort. The mention in Revelation is not Mary, it’s Israel (this is evident especially when you read it within it’s Jewish context, i.e. the twelve stars on the crown representing 12 tribes). All other theology that the catholic church proposes about Mary is simply not supported by scripture.

    Now, I love Mary, I have reverence for her, and I believe in her example. But I am not inclined to ask her for anything when I can ask Jesus. Now, intercessory prayer is not a form of mediation to the Father. I prayers could not reach God the Father without Jesus the Son. I don’t particularly have a large problem with people asking Mary to pray for them, although I don’t know of ANY scriptual evidence that people asked people who have passed on for anything.

    When I ask someone to pray for me, these prayers go directly to Jesus, who mediates for us. I believe it was designed this way for believers currently on earth.

    • Hi, Daniel,

      When we ask Mary to pray, I am sure her prayers go directly to Jesus, too! When I ask my earthly mom to pray her prayers go to Jesus! No one believes that Mary answers our prayers!

      🙂

  11. May I also add that the Apocrypha simply is not inspired. Jews hid such writings, but never considered it the Word of God. Early Church fathers didn’t endorse such writings. None of the New Testament writers consider it Holy Scripture.

    • Dear Daniel,
      You are correct the Apocryphal writings are NOT Holy Scripture. But the Protestants call the seven books Luther removed from the Old Testament, used by Christians for 1500 years, apocrypha. That is because they have not clue that Luther removed them. They have no idea that Christians had used these seven OT books since the birth of the Christian Church. So Protestants think they are the same as the apocryphal books. But they are misinformed. Please see my post:
      Why Did the Catholic Church Remove Books From the Bible?
      For a clear explanation about how Protestant Bibles lost seven OT books.

  12. Praying to Mary since you were a child does not mean you are right.Get basics right and you will see the truth.There is a lot you are missing and your belief is not based on the truth of Gods word, it is twisted.St James says we have to pray to the living saints and not the dead ones.Read your Bible properly.Read John 6;35-37

  13. Dear Anthony,

    What exactly do you think we have wrong or twisted. Please copy and paste the scripture you reference so we can have an intelligent discussion. You are making assertions but I do not recognize your authority. I do however submit to the authority of the Bible.

    Also, St. James says no such thing. There is nothing in the WHOLE Bible that forbids intercessory prayer by those in Heaven or those who have died in the flesh. You have just been taught this.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: