Who Started Your Church?


1517 Lutheran, by Martin Luther, an ex- monk of the Catholic Church.

1534 Church of England, by King Henry VIII because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to remarry.

1560 Presbyterian, by John Knox in Scotland.

1582 Congregationalist, by Robert Brown in Holland .

1605 Baptist, John Smyth, in Amsterdam.

1628 Dutch Reformed church, by Michaelis Jones , in New York.

1744 Methodist, John and Charles Wesley in England.

1774Unitarian, by Theophilus Lindley founded your church in London.

1829 Mormon (Latter Day Saints), by Joseph Smith in Palmyra, N.Y .

1840 Holiness Churches by  Phoebe Palmer

1865 Salvation Army, by William Booth in London.

1870 Jehovah’s Witnesses by Charles Taze Russell

1879 Christian Scientist, by Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy.

1887 Christian and Missionary Alliance by  Rev. Albert Benjamin Simpson

1895 Church of the Nazarene by Dr. Phineas F. Bresee & C.W. Ruth

1900 Pentecostal by Charles Parham (Kansas), William J. Seymour (Los Angeles)

1914 Assembly of God (300 pastors from the Pentecostal movement)

1965  Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa, founded by Chuck Smith.

33AD Catholic Church,  by Jesus Christ the Son of God .

“Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop or by one whom he ordains. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church” (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 Ignatius of Antioch; 110 A.D. ).

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31 Responses

  1. Hello again bfhu, I had to respond to this one as – I am not a member of any of the denominations listed – or indeed of any other denomination. (Not that I think that is wong to be a member of a denomination, providing that denomination is in keeping with the doctrines of scripture.) When someone asks me who my leader is – I point heavenwards. To me the “church” is not a building – nor is it an organisation or a denomination.
    It is about having a constant close relationship with my Creator who sent His Son to die that I might have abundant life here – and eternal joy in Heaven. This is something which I wrote some time ago: “The Christian cannot be ‘neatly filed away’ in precise little compartments governing colour, race, creed, gender or class. Out of every nation they are those who, by faith, have been born again of the Spirit of God. A ‘peculiar people’ (Titus 2v14) they put God first in their lives; the Bible is their guidebook through life’s journey; and they love their Saviour, even unto death. The verse: ‘If it be possible, as much as lieth within you, live peaceably with all men,’ (Rom. 12v18) is applied, in practical terms to their daily lives.”
    Yes, I have fellowship with other Christians when I discern that they have been born again of the Spirit of God and are “walking in the light as He is in the light.”
    As I travel a lot, I sometimes meet Christians in other countries – and I immediately feel an affinity with them – because they too have been born again of the Spirit of God. My God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob – the God who is not willing that any perish, but that they repent of their sins and trust in the all-atoning blood of the Lord Jesus Christ to save them.

  2. Dear Ready,

    I agree that the Church i not just a building but it is the body of Christ. I just am mystified as to why a Christian would not want to belong to the Church founded by Jesus Christ Himself??

  3. Dear bfhu,

    I am a member of the same church that Paul is a member of, Christ’s church. I do not follow humanly written creeds or Traditions as the denominations of Protestantism and the Roman Catholic Church. I follow God through what I know is His inspired Word, the Holy bible, which is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped unto every good work (2 Timothy 3: 16-17). I am afraid that the man you quoted, Ignatius, was not preaching the truth in your quote. When Paul commanded Titus to appoint elders (plural) in every city, he was speaking about a plurality of bishops over each congregation. Please, study the language.

    “4 To Titus, a true son in our common faith:

    Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ[a] our Savior.
    Qualified Elders

    5 For this reason I left you in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking, and appoint ELDERS in EVERY CITY as I commanded you— 6 IF A MAN IS blameless, THE HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE, having faithful children not accused of dissipation or insubordination. 7 FOR A BISHOP[b] must be blameless, as a steward of God, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, 8 but hospitable, a lover of what is good, sober-minded, just, holy, self-controlled, 9 holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught, that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both TO EXHORT AND CONVICT THOSE WHO CONTRADICT (the Roman Catholic Church definitely contradicts this passage).
    The Elders’ Task

    10 For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, 11 whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole households, teaching things which they ought not, for the sake of dishonest gain [ The RCC fulfills this also] (Titus 1: 4-11; NKJV; Sounds like the 1 Timothy 3 passage, which speaks of bishops doesn’t it? It actually uses the terms elder and bishop interchangeably in this passage doesn’t it?).”

    When Paul called the elders (bishops, overseers. Please see the above quoted passage) of Ephesus to himself, it was a plurality of elders that were overseers of the congregation in Ephesus (see Acts 20: 17). Every New Testament passage that speaks of the leaders of the overseers of the church it speaks of them in the plural form (except when it is giving the qualifications to be a bishop/elder, “a bishop must be…” or “to be an elder a man must be…”).

    Nevertheless, just like there were men teaching falsehood in Paul’s day (See the above passage again, Galatians 1, and a host of others.) there were men teaching falsehood in 110 AD as well.

    You are misinformed, the Roman Catholic Church is not the church founded by Christ in Jerusalem in 33 AD. It is an apostate church. Consider the fact that they had to revise their list of the succession of Popes, because their first list was proven incorrect beyond the shadow of a doubt. They could not even get their made up succession of Popes correct; how can anyone trust them in keeping correct Traditions? Especially when they contradict the plain teaching of Scriptures that we know are from God.

    The other denominations you mentioned are also apostatized.

    Much more could be said,

    Joe

    • Dear Joe if you are Catholic then you are in the same Church founded by Jesus upon Peter. If you think that the Church Jesus founded became apostate then His promise that the Gates of Hell would never overcome it was not kept.

      Your belief that you belong to the Church that Paul belonged to is based upon nothing but conjecture and wishful thinking. We can trace the popes of the Catholic Church in an unbroken line, all the way back to Peter, despite the centuries of persecution endured . Your church has no such historical record that goes back to the first century AD. Protestantism only goes back 500 years.

      • Dear bfhu,

        The false teachers that Paul warned about may make the same claim of having a lineage back to the Apostles or even Peter, and yet, that has no weight whatsoever. Paul said that they are false teachers, even though they are bishops. Being a properly ordained bishop in no way guarantees faithfulness. In fact, it is guaranteed that bishops who did have a lineage back to the Apostles did go astray, did teach damnable heresies, and they did draw many after themselves (1 Timothy 4: 1-3; Acts 20: 28-31).

        That is why Paul said that if anyone, even he himself, or an angel from Heaven, were to preach anything different than that which had already been preached, they were to be accursed. Paul also said that we were to follow him AS HE FOLLOWED CHRIST. That means that if he is following Christ, we are to follow him. However, If he ceases to follow Christ, we are to cease from following him.

        How do we know if our overseers are following Christ or not? We test all things and hold fast that which may be proven good. How do we test the doctrine of our overseers? We may compare all things to the Scriptures that are able to make us perfect and to thoroughly equip us unto every good work (2 Timothy 3: 16-17).

        If something contradicts the Scriptures, it cannot possibly be true. It is not possible that an unmarried man may be a bishop by God’s authority. It is not possible that a man can refuse to allow another man to be a bishop without swearing an oath of celibacy, seeing as how it is not lawful to refuse a man to marry (1 Timothy 4: 1-3), it is not possible for an unmarried man to be a bishop (1 Timothy 3: 1-2), and it is not lawful to swear an oath (Matthew 5: 33-37).

        It is good to consider another point. Archaeologists uncovered a tomb in which they found 2000 year old chickweed seed. When they had a chance they proceeded to plant that seed. Do you know what grew? Chickweed! The point? The Word of God is the seed of the Kingdom. If you plant the seed in good soil and water it properly, the Kingdom will grow! It is God who gives the increase and adds the faithful to His church.

        Paul said, “5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one? 6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase. 7 So then NEITHER HE WHO PLANTS IS ANYTHING, NOR HE WHO WATERS, BUT GOD WHO GIVES THE INCREASE (1 Corinthians 3: 5-7). Earlier Paul included Peter in the same vain with Apollos and himself. They are mere servants! It is God who gives the increase! They are authorized to preach the Truth, which, if they do they receive blessing from God.

        The Roman Catholic Church has no authority. They are not the church of God! They had to revise their list of “Popes” because it was proven wrong. Therefore, there is no reason to believe that they do have a linage back to the Apostles. But even if they did, that would be meaningless also.

        Peter is not the foundation of the church. Your interpretation of Matthew 16 may be a legitimate one if you look at that passage alone. However, if you look at the Scriptures as a whole, it becomes evident that it is not possible that your interpretation is the meaning that God intended. The Scriptures do not allow that interpretation, because the Scriptures explicitly state that Jesus is the foundation of God’s building, and that no one may lay any other foundation. If we look at the context of Matthew 16 we see that there is one rock and one foundation. There is not room for another foundation. There is no room for Peter to be the foundation or the Rock that the church is founded upon in that context. In another context all of the Apostles are included as part of the foundation, but there Peter is made equal to the rest of the Apostles. God’s Word is also an integral part of the foundation, because Jesus and His word are one. If you reject Jesus’ word, you reject Him. Jesus said that a man who hears and obeys His words is like a wise man that dug deep and built his house on a rock. We know that the Bible is His Word. If we do not heed that which we know for sure is His word, He says we are like a fool who built his house on sand.

        Lastly, when Jesus says that the gates of Hades shall not prevail against the church, he is not saying that men will not fall into apostasy. That would be contradicting plain statements made by Paul and other of the Apostles (which would demonstrate that the Bible is not the Word of God). If we understand the Scriptures and the point of the gospel we can easily understand that Jesus is speaking about salvation. He is saying that those who He adds to His church and who remain faithful to the end, shall receive everlasting life. The gates of Hades has no power over us who are members of Christ’s church, as long as we choose to stay faithful. If we walk away from Him, we also walk away from His church, and we are lost. The gates of Hades will prevail against us in that case, because we are no longer Christ’s church.

        Much more could be said. May God bless your continued study.

        Sincerely,

        Joe

      • to add just one brief thing to my last comment.

        Even if it were true that Peter is the foundation of the church, which he is not, the Roman Catholic Church would still be contrary to many plain passages of Scripture and therefore in apostasy! It would not help your case. They still fell away from what Peter taught!

        Please face this with honesty.

        Joe

  4. Hi bfhu, You appear convinced that the R.C. Church is “the church founded by Jesus Christ Himself.” On the other hand – I am persuaded in my own mind that it is not. I think you’d agree that only one of us can be right on that issue, so let us both pray for each other. I once had a R.C. neighbour who said to me when we were about to leave that locality: “You know… at least you don’t keep on at me like the J.W.’s. You can talk about other matters in life…” This is because (unlike the JWs who don’t believe in the Holy Spirit) I could pray for this lady in the realisation that my spoken words may not carry any weight at all in her case. So I will pray for you – and you pray for me, if you are convinced that I’m on the wrong route. Ultimately “the Lord knoweth them that are his.” (2Tim. 2v19) And if we are sincere about wanting to find 100% truth – He will not leave us in darkness. I am convinced of that. May He reveal truth to you through the study of His Word, as you pray before you read.

  5. You can see my response to Joseph Duran here–>Bishops are False Teachers

  6. Do me a favor put oneness pentecostals down on this page and put their founder william seymour they call themselves apostolic

  7. The Roman Catholic Church Founded in 312AD by Aurelius Constantinus Augustus. He did this through Edict of Milan313AD which stopped persecutions on Christians within the Roman Empire.
    The term Apostolic succession didnt come around until 180AD.

    The earliest witness to Linus’s status as bishop was Irenaeus, who in about the year 180 wrote, “The blessed apostles, then, having founded and built up the Church, committed into the hands of Linus the office of the episcopate.”[2] The Oxford Dictionary of Popes interprets Irenaeus as classifying Linus as the first bishop of Rome.

    The Original Church of Rome didn’t look like Roman paganism until the Romans took it Over.
    If you were to say Christianity is a Roman Religion you would be in error.
    Jesus was Jewish
    Mary was Jewish
    Peter was Jewish
    Pual was Jewish
    the 12 were Jewish
    Most of the ealy followers were Jewish
    All the Authers of the N.T. except Luke were Jewish
    Why would I believe a Church that was controlled from an Empire that was the cruelest and evil in History.

    • R. Parker: With the widely availability of both online and print information nowadays, it’s laziness and a complete lack of Christian stewardship to make such spurious statements without being diligent about checking your resources. For a start, Roman Catholicism was a derogatory term invented by Protestant-Anglicans. The church of Rome is in the diocese of the Catholic Church in Rome. You are probably the only person left who’s confused about Christianity (or Catholicism) being a Roman religion. Until you’ve sorted this out for yourself, there’s no point in discussing your other concerns. Take care.

      • You gave no data to refute my opinion. I did; The Oxford Dictionary of Popes. The Bible. Basic Roman history or were you not taught Roman history in school? Why do Popes wear Prada?

  8. Catholicism (from Greek καθολικισμός, catholikismos, “according to the whole”)

    Catholicism not a Roman Religion? mmm
    So Native Americans came up with it AHH! Didn’t know that.
    Ya that guy Charlemagne he’s just some Crazy German. Why Was a German named Emperor, 25 December 800AD.
    Old St. Peter’s Basilica, Rome.
    If Jesus is King of Kings, Why would we need an Emperor or Pope?
    Are you an a American?
    It’s a Contradiction to be Catholic and believe in American values especially the first amendment “Freedom of Religion” very unCatholic. American is UnCatholic.
    If the Pope is infallible then there is no freedom of Religion.
    “We all have fallen from the glory of God” , even popes.

  9. Repent , Joel 1:13 : Put on sackcloth and lament, O priests; wail, O ministers of the altar. Go in, pass the night in sackcloth, O ministers of my God! Because grain offering and drink offering are withheld from the house of your God.

    .Gird yourselves with sackcloth And lament.

    • My Point is that Jesus was Not a Catholic , The Original Title of the followers of Jesus was “The Way” thats right from scriptrue. Yeshua is his real name Jesus is Latin. Get My point.
      I dont worship a building in Rome or Popes in Dresses or Mary Virginity . I worship the true Mashiach of Scriptrue. God in in Flesh.

  10. Robert P:

    Jesus is not Catholic but He founded only ONE church which is the Catholic Church (Matt 16:18).

    The early Christians were called by different names: 1) Christians (Acts 11:26); 2) Sect of the Nazarenes (Acts 24:5); 3) Followers of the Way (Acts 9:2); and, 4) Sheep (Jn10:27-28). Later, they became more organized and were called Catholics to distinguish from the heretics and schematics so that “(which) is called catholic, then, because it extends over the whole world, from end to end of the earth, and because it teaches universally and infallibly each and every doctrine which must come to the knowledge of men … And if you ever are visiting in cities, do not inquire simply where the house of the Lord is — for the others, sects of the impious, attempt to call their dens ‘houses of the Lord’ — nor ask merely where the Church is, but where is the Catholic Church. For this is the name peculiar to this holy Church” (St. Cyril of Jerusalem, AD 315-386). At about AD 110, we we have the first extant recorded use of the name “catholic church” (katholike ekklesia) to denote the true Church as universally known (Letter of St. Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans).

    The Bible doesn’t give preeminence to one language or translation over another. We are not commanded to call upon the name of the Lord in Hebrew only. In fact, the English spelling of Yeshua is “Joshua”, becoming “Iēsous” when translated to Greek, and in English spelling as “Jesus.” God knows who calls upon his name, whether it is in English (Jesus) or Chinese (Yē sū) without changing His nature. Interestingly, Jesus was identified as “King of the Jews” in three languages – Hebrew, Latin and Greek – during the crucifixion (Jn 13:3). Christians who insist that Jesus be called by his Hebrew name is being trivial, provincial and sectarianistic.

    “I dont worship a building in Rome or Popes in Dresses or Mary Virginity . I worship the true Mashiach of Scriptrue. God in in Flesh.”

    This is spurious and incoherent again.

  11. Matt 16:18). 18 I also say to you that you are [a] Peter, and upon this [b]rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
    Church, Meaning assembly or the whole body
    Assembly of Jesus Christ
    catholic- Greek meaning
    The Whole Church
    About the Whole Church
    Where does it say Catholic?
    Where does it say Roman?
    Why do Catholics only use the Churches view of its own history? (That’s called being bias)
    When Reformers do the same thing, to you were lying?
    Sounds hypocritical on your part?
    And To set things straight Reformers are catholic in a sense that reformed theology came from Roman Catholism. Reformed meaning to reform the Church. As Luther pointed out Clergy abuses, the popes’ infallibility .This doctrine was defined dogmatically in the First Vatican Council of 1869–1870. In other Roman Catholics made it up to refute the Reformers.

    • So accordingly to you, where’s this Matt 16:18 “Church” founded by Christ which can be easily identifiable on earth today? It must existed from the beginning (since the “gates of Hades will not overpower it) with the assurance of Peter being the rock foundation and who also possesses the “keys of the kingdom”? If you can name one, then do you obey the biblical prescription of deferring to this “Church” which is called the “pillar and foundation of truth (Matt 18:16) as the final arbiter of faith issues (Jn 21: 15-17). Do you obey Christ’s mandate to obey this Church because “He who hears you, hears me, and he rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me” (Lk 10:16).

      Or, are you standing outside this Church and constantly “disputing about words” (Jn 20:21), calling “Lord, Lord” (Matt 7:21) but DENYING and REJECTING what’s devised in the Divine scheme. Think about it, Robert.

  12. You cant answer my questions with a question.
    But I will answer your Question.
    The Church didnt started untel pentecost
    Acts 1:8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
    The Church cant exciest without the Holy Spirit. Acts Chapter2
    The Rock is God himself and Peter will be its leader. Because Jesus is going to be crucified and be risin.
    Rock or The Rock in the Old Testiment appears
    79 time(s). Is the O.T. reffering to Peter? I think not.
    The N.T. cant not stand on its own. (from there is the Shepherd, the Stone of Israel. The Stone the builders reject.

    Verse 17 of Matthew is the key Who Is Jesus talking about in that verse? The Holy Spirit , So to read 18 in context the Rock is the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:8) and then the Glory in Chapter2. God hImself. You cant take one verse and to even make an assumption. You must stay in context.

    • All Christians believe that the birthday of the Church was Pentecost so you are not discovering anything new. Matt 16:18 is a prophecy about the founding of Christ’s church. You are completely out of context to say the “Rock” is the Holy Spirit in Matt. 16:18. So why did Christ change Simon’s name to Peter? Did Christ say upon the “Holy Spirit” I will build my Church?

  13. Yes he did
    15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

    16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
    “17” Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[a] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[b] will not overcome it.

    Verse 17 “not flesh and blood but my Father in heaven.”

    How can you start a thought with “And” (18) so thier is something before verse 18. Verse 15 Jesus ask a question Verse 16 Peter answers Verse 17. Jesus makes statement base on Peters answer. Verse 18 Jesus adds to his first statement making 18 a secondary statement.
    How Can start a complete thought with a secondary statment and with the word “And”?

  14. Robert P:

    No one is disagreeing with you.

    So verse 17 says “it’s not flesh and blood (that is, not human) but God, the Father” who revealed the Messiahship declaration by Peter.

    Christ continued in verse 18: “And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church”. Christ and Peter spoke Aramaic so this would be in the original discourse: “And I tell you that you are Kepha, and on this kepha I will build my church”.

    In Jn 1:42 is revealed that it was Christ who changed Simon’s name to Kepha. Peter is Kepha in Aramaic (transliterated into Greek as Cephas), from Latin Petrus, Greek Petros which means Rock. In the divine scheme, Jesus conferred the symbolic name of Rock upon Simon, setting a stage for a deliberate name play in Matt 16.18 to let known his plan for his community of believers: You are Kepha, and on this kepha I will build my church.

    The question is how and what make you draw the conclusion that it’s the “Holy Spirit” who is the “Rock” by referencing Acts 1:8? In Acts, we simply read that, “But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you”. This is text-proofing outside the context at its worst. Instead, Robert, you may want to start believing, as a child of God, in accepting a bible verse in its most immediate context and in its plain, clear and literal sense of scripture before applying some remote layers of interpretation to it. We can very easily miss seeing the wood for the trees …

    We don’t disagree that the “Rock is God himself and Peter will be its leader”. God is always the Alpha and the Omega, but God has also chosen Peter to be the “leader” of his visible church on earth. So my original question to you is again:

    [… where’s this Matt 16:18 “Church” founded by Christ which can be easily identifiable on earth today? … If you can name one, then do you obey the biblical prescription of deferring to this “Church” which is called the “pillar and foundation of truth (Matt 18:16) as the final arbiter of faith issues (Jn 21: 15-17). Do you obey Christ’s mandate to obey this Church because “He who hears you, hears me, and he rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me” (Lk 10:16).]

    • I’m not rejected anything especially My Lord Jesus Christ. Who is the Word that Became Flesh. (The Word was GOD) So my authority for Christ Teachings is from Scripture not from Men alone.

      But you will say the Catholic Church get all of its Doctrine(Teachings) from Scripture that’s not true.
      If it were the Pope himself would were sackcloth. And during the middle ages the Church would have never tried to take land that wasnt thiers in the first place.

      And it senseless I see now to argue with you, you will continue to deny Scripture for the traditions of men. Gee I think Jesus said that, Ill let you look up the verse!! Well Here RSV(Catholic) Matt 15: 6 So, for the sake of your tradition, you have made void the word[c] of God. 7 You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said:

      8 ‘This people honors me with their lips,
      but their heart is far from me;
      9 in vain do they worship me,
      teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’”

  15. The church in today’s world is an assembly of believers that the Holy Spirit presides on and over and in and through.

  16. Robert P: So my question to you again is:

    [… where’s this Matt 16:18 “Church” founded by Christ which can be easily identifiable on earth today? … If you can name one, then do you obey the biblical prescription of deferring to this “Church” which is called the “pillar and foundation of truth (Matt 18:16) as the final arbiter of faith issues (Jn 21: 15-17). Do you obey Christ’s mandate to obey this Church because “He who hears you, hears me, and he rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me” (Lk 10:16).]

    You obviously don’t know the answer. You’ve been made “orphan” by your own narrow-minded sectarianism. Just take care of yourself, Robert. Bye …

  17. I will answer again.The church in today’s world is an assembly of believers that the Holy Spirit presides on and over and in and through.

    Jn 21: 15-17? Not sure were that verse fits in here. The Context is Love ; Peter using Phillo, Jesus using agape?

    Lk 10:16 “He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”
    So by rejecting you , Ive rejected Jesus?
    This verse has nothing to do with the Church.
    I could make the same agruement about you.

    LK 10:13 “Woe to you, Chora′zin! woe to you, Beth-sa′ida! for if the mighty works done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. 14 But it shall be more tolerable in the judgment for Tyre and Sidon than for you. 15 And you, Caper′na-um, will you be exalted to heaven? You shall be brought down to Hades.

    16 “He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

    Nothing about the Roman Catholic Church

    Not sure were you are going on this.

  18. I was preached Jesus at 35 years old, Then Baptized in The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Then Disciple for over 4 years with Men of God who were equipped with Word of Truth. I’m still leaning, I press on for the Glory of Christ. I count it all lose to win Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior.
    I tell you this because I feel you passing a personal judgment against me.
    I’m not Judging you I’m just pointing out your error. Ill pray for you my brother. God Bless

  19. Robert P:

    It’s much better this way when you don’t rant incoherently by making spurious accusations and statements. You came in first to pre-judge Catholics.

    I appreciate the sharing of your deep faith. I’m most impressed when you say “I count it all lose to win Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior.” However, this can sometimes mean to rethink a lot of presuppositions, biases and prejudices we can harbor. So do we really accept Christ as Lord and Savior if we conveniently ignore His clear mandates in the governance and right conducts in His Church? Even St. Paul went back to consult “Cephas” … “lest somehow I should be running, or had run in vain” (Gal 2:1-2). It’s no small matter when there’s a biblical prescription to “let him (a recalcitrant believer) be as a Gentile and a tax collector” (ex-communication) if he “refuses to listen even to the Church” (Matt 18:17).

    We can continue this conversation by moving it to private e-mails if you like. Or we can continue to use this forum but only if we can adhere to common courtesy and respect.

    In Christ,

  20. “The church in today’s world is an assembly of believers that the Holy Spirit presides on and over and in and through.”

    Where is that in the bible?

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