Michael:What in the world does Job 1:5 have to do with Purgatory? Haha. Job’s children were still living then. They hadn’t died yet, so this has nothing to do with praying for the dead. He was praying for his LIVING children.
BFHU: All true. It is just cited to show the OT idea of the need for purification and that the father prayed and sacrificed VICARIOUSLY, for their purification. Just as Jesus prayed and sacrificed for the sin of all mankind. AND just as we pray and offer little sacrifices for the purification of the Holy Souls in Purgatory. This doesn’t prove Purgatory just that some of the Catholic Theology regarding it is not new with Christianity.
Michael:Why is it that the Catholic church loves to quote Apocrypha?
BFHU:We don’t. These books are NOT Apocrypha. They are regarded as the Deuterocanon or second canon. Apocrypha refers to uncanonized books. Some of these were good but some were heretical. We have none in our Bible.
Protestants have a tradition of referring to the OT Books in the Catholic Bible that Martin Luther threw out of his OT, as “apocrypha” in a derogatory and inaccurate way.
We do use this passage in Maccabees to show the ancient OT belief upon which Catholic belief and practice regarding the souls in Purgatory is founded.
Michael: These book appear in the back of the Catholic Bible (I still have mine from prep school).
BFHU:In Catholic Bibles today they are included categorically with the rest of the OT. I have never heard that they were ever at the back of a Bible, except for centuries, Protestant Bibles often included these same 7 books in the back of the Bible. If you wouldn’t mind I would like to have you check it and see if it is truly a Catholic Bible or if it is a Protestant Bible. What Translation? Who Published it? What Year?
Michael:These books have been rejected by the church, why do they use these passages? Some books fo the Apocrypha state that Jesus sinned, are we to use those passages?
BFHU:You are wrong. They are a part of the inerrant scriptures that Jesus used and quoted from most frequently. We use them because we received the Greek Septuagint Old Testament Scriptures straight from the Jews of the first century. Simple as that. Once Christians began using them to make converts Pharisees got together and removed them. So Protestant follow the OT of the Pharisees and Martin Luther.
Michael:Playing games with words and pretending that “purification” is different from “redemption” is sophistry, pure and simple.
BFHU: Only because of the Protestant culture you are used to. Even Martin Luther acknowledged that we might be redeemed but still impure. The purification I am talking about is the remission of the temporal consequences of sin
Jesus’ work on the cross was either enough to completely cleanse us, or it was not. It’s that simple. For a better Biblical explanation of Purgatory click–>Where is the Biblical Evidence for Purgatory?
No canon scripture supports the notion of Purgatory, and it never will. stuff.
BFHU:How do you understand this verse?
Colossians 1:24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I do my share on behalf of His body, which is the church, in filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions.
Michael:Christ told the thief on the cross he would we with with Him in Paradise, not after being in Purgatory for a while. The poor man, Lazarus:
BFHU:But Michael, you yourself said that Paradise is the good side of the place of the dead, or Abraham’s bosom. It is not Heaven but those who await the opening of Heaven by Jesus will be going to Heaven. This is where the Thief of the Cross went “Today you will be with me in Paradise” because Jesus did not ascend to His Father in Heaven for three days as He tell Mary Magdalene.
Michael:Purgatory is a foolish idea, that is insulting to the propitiating work of Christ… it’s that simple.
BFHU:It is only foolish to Protestants who are content to enter Heaven as a “pile of dung covered over with the righteousness of Christ.” as Luther explains. Catholic believe that we can be completely purified and thoroughly HOLY as we enter the Presence of God in Heaven. But the fact is as scripture says, we must be Holy as He is Holy. So everyone, whether they believe in purification after death of not WILL BE PURIFIED BEFORE BEHOLDING GOD IN HEAVEN.
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