BFHU: Charles, Peter referring to himself as a fellow elder was absolutely true. Our pope is a fellow priest to all Catholic priests. And a fellow bishop to all Catholic bishops. It is an act of humility to identify with them and an act of hubris to go around proclaiming, “I am a pope, the Vicar of Christ.” This is because every pope knows he is nothing but only a servant to the servants of God.
Charles: Honoring scripture means making it part of one’s life in constant study. Five minutes scripture on a Sunday is not honoring scripture especially if it involves football matches after the one hour service. As I did .
BFHU:Where do you find this definition of “Honoring Scripture” in scripture?
Is this just your opinion?
Charles:Sola scripture was started by the Apostles – it is what they preached.
BFHU: Based on what evidence do you assert that Sola Scriptura was started by the Apostles?
There are so many more quotes but of course the main one is from Jesus – when He says that man must live by the WHOLE BIBLE.
BFHU: Where did Jesus say that?
Charles: “Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other. 1 Corinthians 4:6
“from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.” 2 Timothy 3:15
“if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace which was given to me for you; that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief. By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; Ephesians 3:2-
“All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.” 2 Timothy 3:16-17
“I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.” Revelation 22:18-19
“You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.” Deuteronomy 4:2
BFHU: Charles are aware that none of these are quoting Jesus? What does “what was written” refer to exactly? Since, no one at the time Paul wrote had any idea which writings would end up in the New Testament.
As you point out the same sort of warning as you quote in Revelation was also given in Deuteronomy. So that would exclude the whole rest of the Bible–OT & NT …….if you were consistent.
Charles: Mathew 4 ; 4 “But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY word (THE WHOLE BIBLE) that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.”
Jesus and the apostles had full confidence that the Bible would be perfect through the Holy Spirit – the bible was not man’s choice.
God never said you could add or take away from His word.
Charles, if we know, as St. John says, that everything Jesus did could not be written down but only what was necessary for salvation, then we know that, since Jesus is God, that every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God, is NOT recorded in Sacred Scripture. Therefore, in order to more closely live, “by EVERY word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God” one should wish to follow ALL of Apostolic Teaching and this is found ONLY in the Catholic and Orthodox churches.
Also, interpreting, “every word of God” as the “whole Bible” is an interpretation and you are breaking your own rule and adding to the Scriptures.
Charles: The writings they were referring to came from the apostles so they knew what was to be included.
BFHU: Based on what evidence do you assert this?
Charles: bfhu – Using your logic would mean we only have to keep the commandments when they are mentioned but not in the bits where they are not mentioned ??????
BFHU: That is not my logic. You assert that the Catholic Church adds to Scripture b/c of our adherence to the Apostolic Teachings contained in the oral Tradition and not contained in the Written Tradition/Bible and therefore that we violate the Revelation 22 proscription against adding to “the prophecy of this book”.
I am simply pointing out:
1) “prophecy of this book” does NOT refer to the whole Bible as we know it today b/c it DID NOT EXIST AT THE TIME JOHN WROTE REVELATION. So it much more likely merely referred to his book of Revelation, only.
2) This interpretation is further supported because everyone who uses this verse to bash Catholics is usually ignorant of the implication of similar verses in the 5th book of the OT :
Deuteronomy 12:32 “Everything that I command you you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to it or take from it.
Deuteronomy 4:2 You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.”
By using the logic of excluding Oral Tradition with Rev. 22, Protestants, once they find out about Deut.4 and 12, should only adhere to the first five books of the OT and exclude all the rest of the Bible….if they were consistent.
But this would be silly because both the Rev and the Deut passages are merely referring to the books they are contained in.
Don’t add or take away from the commands in Deut.; don’t add to the Prophecy of Rev. That is it.
Filed under: Sola Scriptura |