Is Praying to the Saints Necromancy?


Ouija Board, Tarot cards and other Divination tools.

Ouija Board, Tarot cards and other Divination tools.


Dan: Regarding Praying to Mary!
“What does the Bible say about praying to / speaking to the dead?”
Answer: Praying to the dead is strictly forbidden in the Bible. Deuteronomy 18:11 tells us that anyone who “consults with the dead” is “detestable to the Lord.” The story of Saul consulting a medium to bring up the spirit of the dead Samuel resulted in his death “because he was unfaithful to the LORD; he did not keep the word of the LORD and even consulted a medium for guidance” (1 Samuel 28:1-25; 1 Chronicles 10:13-14). Clearly, God has declared that such things are not to be done.

BREAD FROM HEAVEN: I am sure that your pastor taught you this and used this verse to back up his denunciation of the Catholic Church. But, what is condemned is DIVINATION-(the occult practice of trying to get information from the dead in order to make decisions) NOT Intercessory prayer requests.

So the purpose for speaking to the dead when practicing DIVINATION is SEEKING OCCULT INFORMATION.

Let’s define our terms.

Definition of OCCULT

1: not revealed : secret
2: not easily apprehended or understood : abstruse, mysterious
3: hidden from view

Witchcraft

Witchcraft

Definition of DIVINATION: Practice of discerning the hidden significance of events and foretelling the future. Divination is found in all societies, ancient and modern, though methods vary. In the West, psychics claim innate ability to predict the future, and horoscopes, palm reading, and tarot cards are popular methods of divination. Other methods involve or have involved interpreting dreams, discovering omens in natural events, reading the entrails of animals, casting lots, and consulting oracles. Divination has long been viewed as the province of specially gifted persons, such as prophets, shamans, and magicians. See also astrology.

When we ask the dead (but alive in Heaven) to pray for us we are asking for intercessory prayer. We are asking them to pray for us. We are not asking them for information in order to make decisions.images-1

If you notice your quote above:

Deuteronomy 18:11 tells us that anyone who “consults with the dead” is “detestable to the Lord.”

Consults has a very different meaning than “speak to”.

Definiton of Consults: to ask the advice or opinion of

Exactly as the I Chron. passage says: Saul “consulted a medium for guidance


And here is the Deuteronomy passage:

Deuteronomy 18:10-12
Revised Standard Version (RSV)
10 There shall not be found among you any one who burns his son or his daughter as an offering,[a] any one who practices divination, a soothsayer, or an augur, or a sorcerer, 11 or a charmer, or a medium, or a wizard, or a necromancer. 12 For whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord; and because of these abominable practices the Lord your God is driving them out before you.

Definition of NECROMANCY: conjuration of the spirits of the dead for purposes of magically revealing the future or influencing the course of events

I Sam 28:15 Then Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?” Saul answered, “I am in great distress; for the Philistines are warring against me, and God has turned away from me and answers me no more, either by prophets or by dreams; therefore I have summoned you to tell me what I shall do.

As you can see, DIVINATION through necromancy, consulting a medium is the seeking of hidden (occult) information for decision making or attempts to control events. This is what God condemns because we are to trust Him; seek guidance only from Him. This is because God knows that the so called “dead” consulted in necromancy are not really the spirits of a human person but DEMONS disguised as the intended person.

A DEMON would NEVER join us in praying to God for anything. Therefore when we ask someone, in Heaven, to pray for us we do not have to worry about contacting Demons. They lose any power over us. We ask for prayers only not for information. Therefore, we also do not need to be afraid we will be led astray by Demons either because we give them no power to give us any information.

necromancyIt is very sloppy exegesis to tell people that Divination is the same thing as asking for intercessory prayer and is therefore condemned by God in the OT.

The Rosary vs Divination


Sonja:  Praying to dead saints…this not necessarily clearly refuted by scripture but definitely not taught either. The only time I recall someone trying to contact the dead was when Saul tried to contact Samuel the prophet. He did it through a seer (clearly against the command of God) and Samuel seemed pretty irritated Saul had called him from his rest.

Bread From Heaven: Yes, this was clearly a sin. But it was a sin of divination. The seeking of occult knowledge from the dead. This is definitely condemned in scripture. But divination is not the same things as asking for prayer, to join you in praying. No occult knowledge is sought at all.   The attempt to equate the two in order to condemn the communion of the saints is very sloppy exegesis. But, hey, I used to believe it.

Sonja: Also wouldn’t mind seeing the Hail Mary prayer since I was under the impression that it was more of a prayer to her???

Bread From Heaven:

Hail Mary full of grace. The Lord is with thee. Blessed art  thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death.

Sonja: What do get out of the repetition with the rosemary beads?

While we say the Hail Mary ten times we meditate on an event in the Life of Christ. (there are only two about Mary) That is called a decade of the Rosary. There are five decades for five events to meditate on. Five decades is usually what people mean when they say, “I prayed the Rosary.”

Bread From Heaven:

Joyful Mysteries of Life of Christ

The Annunciation-Angel tells Mary she will have son of God

Annunciation

Visitation

Nativity

Dedication in Temple

Finding of Jesus in Temple

Sorrowful Mysteries

Agony in Garden

Beating

Crowning of Thorns

Carrying Cross

Crucifixion

Luminous Mysteries

Baptism of Jesus

Wedding at Cana

Preaching the Kingdom of Go

Transfiguration

Last Supper

Glorious Mysteries

Resurrection

Ascension

Pentecost

Mary Assumed into Heaven

Mary Queen of Heaven