Father Barron on “Zeitgeist the Movie”
“then Job arose and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground and worshipped. and said, “naked came i out of my mothers womb and naked shall i return thither” job 1:20:,21 (ie. unto another womb).
BFHU: Interesting interpretation. However, the text says nothing about another womb. We KNOW we do not return to our birth mother’s womb but we do leave, a type of “going back” away from this life… naked.
This passage is not doctrinal teaching anyway but the quotation of some ancient poetry. So it needs to be read as poetry, not as prose or didactic teaching.
I think, in the context, the loss of material goods, the nakedness is the point. The point is not teaching about reincarnation. And, also, the going back could be interpreted “going back to the mother’s womb”, except that we know is not reality and it does not bolster the reincarnation idea. The fact is, you can’t go back to a place you have never been before (another womb)
but thou, bethlehem ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of judah, yet out of thee shall come forth unto me that is to be ruler in israle; whoes going forth have been from old, from everlasting” (micah 5:2)
BFHU: This is speaking about Jesus the eternal second person of the Holy Trinity who has existed eternally, therefore He has been “going forth from of old, from everlasting”
for all the prophets and the law prophesied until john. and if ye will receive it, this is elias,which was for to come. he that hath ears to hear, let him hear (matthew 11:13-15)
“and as they came came down from the mountain, jesus charged them,saying, tell the vision(of his transfiguration, in which he had revealed himself as the messiah) to no man, until the son of man be risen again from the dead. and his disciples asked him,saying, why then say the scribes that elias must first come? and jesus answered and said unto them, elias truely shall firs come, and restore all things. but i say into you, that elias is come already, and they knew him not,but have done unto him whatSoever they listed. likewise shall also the son of man suffer of them. then the diciples understood he spake onto them about john the baptist.” (matthew 17:9-13)
BFHU: In Malachi 3:23 There is the prophesy that Elijah will come before the day of the Lord. This does not mean that John the Baptist is the reincarnation of Elijah but that John is a great prophet in the spirit of Elijah–Luke 1:17
“He (John the baptist) will go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah to turn the hears of fathers toward children and the disobedient to the understaqnding of the righteous…”
“him that overcometh will i make a pillar in the temple of my god, and he shall go no more out”(revealation 3:12)
“GO OUT” TO EARTH TO BE REBORN TO MAKE THE LOVE FOR GOD PERFECT BY REMOVING FLAWS WHICH STAND IN THE WAY OF KNOWING GOD!!
BFHU: You are reading a huge interpretation into the verse in Rev. with nothing to support it.
CL: these sections are merely a few out of many which talks so frankly about reincarnation. so how come christians call it so pagan when the bible shouts out the message so clearly!!
BFHU: It is not clear and the Bible does not shout it at all. These verses have NO HISTORY of being interpreted the way you are interpreting them.
CL: now the historical fact: reincarnation is not un-christian or even un-jewish…it was taught by some of the early great christian fathers,
BFHU: Origen became apostate. His writings are not infallible but many of his early writings were very orthodox. Please cite your source so I can check up on your claim. I have all the writing of the Early Fathers on CD and they are also online. I will not accept your word for it that the early fathers accepted and taught reincarnation
Q. How do we know that we really have an eternal soul?
A. A living human body is not the same thing as a corpse. Now the soul is the difference between a corpse and a living being. A dead body cannot move, eat, think, express itself, enjoy, or be miserable. It can but fall to pieces and go back to the dust. There is something that stops your body from doing that now. It is your soul. For every activitity you must find a principle of operation behind it. The principle in a man which thinks and loves, and is happy or miserable, is a very real thing. It is not nothing. It is not less than the very body it animates. Nor is it a chemical. No doctor examining a corpse, can tell you what chemical is missing that it sould not live. If there be nothing else save chemical substances, let doctors scientist gather together the requisite chemicals and say, “Live!” They can effect nothing like this. There is something that chemistry cannot reach; it is the soul or spirit. Look anyone in the face, and behind those animated features, those changing expressions, in the very eyes, you will read the soul.
Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the slime of the earth: and breathed into his face the breath of life, and man became a living soul.
Q. Then do animals and vegetable life have souls?
A. Yes. Sane philosophy admits a vegetative soul, a sensitive animal soul, and an immortal, spiritual, intelligent human soul.
-Radio Replies Vol. #1; # 27 & 28>
God is certainly good. He gave humanity free will and they abused their freedom by disobedience to the Law of God. This caused the fall of man and nature. From this disharmony, evil (absence of good) was introduced. Evil is permitted, because without evil being a real possibility people would not have real freedom. Childhood deformity, diseases, and all kinds of disabilities are a result of the disharmony of nature caused by Man’s fall. But, God knows that He can draw greater good from all kinds of suffering in the end.
In His wisdom God may permit a child to be born deformed who with health and strength would fling itself into the pleasures of sin and end up in eternal loss. Would it not be a mercy for some, apparently sane people, to have been born with great defects in order to save them from Hell? People, whether mentally or bodily deformed, do not spend the whole of their lives in misery and suffering. They too can experience joy and love, laughter and compassion. Likewise, we must remember that our souls are eternal, and all will be rectified either in this life or the next.
Again, an intellectually or psychologically damaged child/adult cannot sin, and so what appears to us as a life not worth living will, after a mere 80 years or so, yield to the joy of eternal happiness in Heaven. These days we have convinced ourselves that the merciful thing to do is to snuff out the lives of helpless human beings through abortion/euthanasia. But, in the process we can send ourselves to Hell by committing this grave sin.
We might say, “If God be good, why did He allow His Son to go through excruciating torture?” Sin is the real evil, not suffering. Earthly suffering will only last as long as this life. But, SIN is capable of landing a person in Hell where suffering will be longer than an earthly life. The suffering of Hell will last eternally.
The miseries of this world have driven thousands into the loving arms of God. So, if only for this reason we can discern an indication of God’s goodness in allowing suffering in order to give eternal life in Heaven with Him.
A baby born without eyes grows up. Click HERE
A child born without the ability to walk is overjoyed when carried on Dad’s shoulders in a local race. So Dad begins to enter races carrying his son. Then he moves on to Triatholons. See video HERE. See story HERE
Q. Is the transmigration of souls, and our return in animal forms impossible?
A. Yes. The human soul is essentially an intellectual being, and the nature God has given to man demands a proportionately constructed bodily counterpart. An intellectual soul united with a body incapable of cooperating in thought processes, as, for example, a human soul inhabiting a dog, would be a metaphysically repugnant monstrosity, and a direct contradiction of Divine Wisdom.
Moreover, God has revealed that “it is appointed for man to die once and after that the judgment.” Hebrews 9:27 We do not come back as animals and die again. Also the jusgment of each soul concerns its final destiny, and does not allow of another temporary and earthly existence. So, our returning in animal forms is outside the realm of both possibility and fact.
Q. What is the soul of Man?
A. Man has one nature created by God. But in that single nature are two aspects. The physical body is made of matter; it will eventually die and be resurrected and reunited with the soul at the end of time. The soul is the spiritual aspect of the nature of man and is eternal. The soul is that which animates the physical body of man and leaves it at death.
Q. If a soul is the difference between a living being and a corpse, then does an animal have a soul?
A. Yes. However, Catholic philosophers reject belief in the immortality of animal souls, chiefly on the score of their nonspiritual operations. A study of animal psychology reveals nothing that transcends the sensitive and material order, and there can be no reasonable doubt but that death terminates the existence of animals both as regards body and soul. Revelation gives no indiction that animals will have a future life. Radio Replies Vol. 3 #48 & 49
However, please note, this is a philosophical belief but it is not Catholic dogma. So, do all dogs go to heaven? Probably not. But we don’t know for sure. This is my opinion but I am open to correction.